Over the weekend I shared a passenger who complained on twitter about American Airlines employees being upgraded ahead of them. The American Airlines twitter team responded, explaining that deadheading pilots have priority for upgrades once check-in begins.
This was funny because,
- The employees in uniform were obviously flight attendants, not pilots
- They weren’t upgraded (or norevs) in this case
- Even American Airlines twitter assumed that when passengers aren’t being upgraded, it must be because of pilots – even when it isn’t.
Under our new pilot collective bargaining agreement, pilots deadheading to operate a flight will be added to the top of the upgrade list at their time of check-in. The processes for clearing upgrades prior to 24 hours before departure remain unchanged.
— americanair (@AmericanAir) February 2, 2024
The change to the American Airlines pilot contract, to make pilots more comfortable at work in lieu of upgrading frequent customers, follows United pilots getting this during the pandemic. It’s not unique to American!
Although United at least got something in exchange at the time, which was seniority flexibility that kept all their pilots flying and therefore ready to fly when travel returned. American furloughed pilots, rather than making such a deal, and had operational problems later as a result.
Pilot upgrade priority matters, but not nearly as much as passengers think it does. This customer reaction, though, seems typical: American Airlines Executive Platinum with nearly twice the qualifying activity needed for that status was unable to use their confirmed upgrade benefit on a domestic flight for their only vacation of the year (that’s revenue management, not pilots!), and wound up sitting in back when it mattered to him while a pilot sat up front. And they now question why they give the airline their business?
Today @AmericanAir lost my loyalty. Executive Platinum, requalified EP for the NEXT year, 360k Loyalty Points last 12 months, tried to use my Systemwide upgrades for my ONLY vacation with my spouse this year (DFW to MIA) and they didn't clear even 2 months out, 12 seats available… pic.twitter.com/YgZws6tRfn
— Third Coast Gems (@thirdcoastgems) February 7, 2024
It is right to question loyalty in this case, regardless of how that pilot got into the cabin. The passenger doesn’t identify him as having been upgraded at the gate. Maybe he redeemed miles for the flight, or purchased the ticket to commute to his duty assignment. We just don’t know. The Twitter team says it was a contractual upgrade, but they’ve gotten that wrong before – in the past few days!
This is a contractual provision in our new pilot agreement and is limited to upgrades within 24 hours of departure. Our standard processes for clearing upgrades prior to 24-hours before departure, including for our AAdvantage members, remain in place. We'll share your feedback.
— americanair (@AmericanAir) February 7, 2024
The key takeaway here is simply that elite status isn’t worth what it used to be. For myself,
- A decade ago I would clear upgrades every time as an American Airlines Executive Platinum. This was true on international flights, using systemwide upgrades, as well.
- Now I don’t ever bank on getting upgraded. Most of the time I’m not!
- So if a premium cabin matters on a given trip, I secure it at booking. Or I resign myself to coach.
When I was a Concierge Key member I wasn’t upgraded all the time. I was generally at the very top of the upgrade list, though there were flights were I was one of as many as four “CKs” in back.
My most frequent upgrade, during my brief time with that status, was to the last first class seat in the cabin, assigned to me on the day of departure. That’s a seat that would now go to an employee instead, if a deadheading (not commuting) American Airlines pilot is on your flight on their way to a flight they’ll be working.
That’s not a business decision I’d have made, but it’s also not the major reason Executive Platinums aren’t a frequent thing for me anymore. Others do have better luck! It depends on the routes you fly and when you fly them. But planes are a lot more full than before, first class seats are sold more than before, and they’re sold for less than before too.
- American Airlines didn’t used to do the kind of buy up offers to passengers that United has been known for over the years. I once wrote about getting a $59 offer from United to buy up to first class and the pitch was how many elites were hoping to get that seat as an upgrade.
- When they made buy up offers at check-in, these “Load Factor Based Upgrades” were only available when they projected clearing upgrades for all elites on the wait list.
- Now they pitch first class upgrades to most passengers whenever they project not to sell out the cabin.
I’ve been an Executive Platinum (or Concierge Key) with American Airlines every year since 2012. However I do that without actually trying all that hard for me, based on flying I’d do anyway (they’re still the biggest legacy carrier at my home airport) and easy offers I take advantage of now that AAdvantage status is earned through most partner activity.
I actually believe that chasing top tier status is a mistake and that the sweet spot is mid-tier status that comes with extra legroom seats at booking. American doesn’t have enough of those, and even booking in advance it can be tough to get an extra legroom aisle. But not worrying about status, your incremental investment for it can be spent on other things.
Arguably though at American, if you’re not concerned about where you are on the upgrade list when your upgrade doesn’t clear, Platinum Pro status is the sweet spot since it’s oneworld emerald as well. You can get into Qantas, Cathay Pacific, and other first class lounges when you travel internationally.
Qantas First Class Lounge, Sydney
Take higher status if you can get there but it isn’t something to shoot for, because airlines began taking short-term revenue over long-term long before they started upgrading pilots ahead of passengers.
New bottle, old wine. Airline employees enjoying the best of what their company has to offer while paying customers watch from less comfortable circumstances? It’s been a thing for years. Remember all the grousing in the 2010s about United “Employee Class,” with partying nonrevs dominating F after elites were told their upgrade instruments wouldn’t work? Anyone who’s been in the FF game for any length of time knows the principal mission of a US-based airline is the comfortable transport of the employees of said airline.
Chasing airline loyalty has become a fool and sucker’s errand. You hit the nail on the head that the sweet spot is in the lower tiers, though I would argue the sweet spot is actually the lowest tier. Get your free checked bag, priority check-in and boarding, access to upgraded seat selection, and an occasional upgrade in a wide open cabin (same as EP at this point). Why go any further?
Since last year, I have entirely shifted my card and loyalty strategy toward hotels and general travel cards like Sapphire and AmEx. Hotel redemption value is still very strong within programs like Hyatt, IHG, and Hilton. Though Marriott Bonvoy is more a joke than the airlines.
Im sure that pilot really appreciates you taking a photo of him.
If you so badly want a first class seat, you can always buy it… You can’t be upset when something you want for FREE is given to someone else.
The root cause of this problem, like most airlines, is that need to install more 1st class seats. Upgrades are a lost art, reserved only for the elitist of the elite. They promote the loyalty programs like you actually can get upgrades when your chances are often less than .1%. this is truly marketing deception
It wasn’t worth chasing BEFORE these changes. You’d have to be a complete fool to still be chasing status. Yeah, you and your shiny EP tags can go sit in the back while we upgrades our coworkers or sell that upgrade for Twenty Bucks. Suckers
The benefits of airline status ended years ago. FF junkies are just not ready to admit that the fun game we played all these years is over. I do get a nice deal occasionally with an airline affinity credit card offering discounts on first class tix, but haven’t found a decent upgrade since 2021. Full award or cash tix are the only way to fly these days.
Absolute nonsense that pilots get this perk, instead of the paying customers who spend their money with the airline and maintain a loyalty link specific to the upgrade perk for consumers. Remind me, who pays their salary? American and United are very proud of their Main Cabin Extra / United plus- put them there. If you are a top tier spender in Las Vegas, you get the best rooms and the best suites. Imagine that they gave those rooms to the corp employees, or housekeeping union leaders? How likely are you to spend your money there?
Tone deaf pilots.
These pilots only have this “perk” for deadheads on company business. Having done this for 43 years, my guess is it takes less than one seat per flight. Twenty-plus years ago the guy next to me on a flight complained how he thought it was terrible that I was able to sit in FC. He told me he was traveling for business and his company paid for him to travel FC. I told him mine did too.
I’m now retired but think this is a great idea for pilots to have this benefit. As others posted, if you pay to sit in FC pilots won’t be able to take your seat. Maybe that’s what UA/AA have in mind.
@steve – who do you think “you” is here, I did not take this photo, just for clarity
I’m an AA Exec Platinum (and have been for years) who averages between $300k-$425k in spend annually and flies about 15-20 per year to various areas across the country. I seldom purchase a first/business class seat and have been upgraded on 11 straight segments now. I have never seen a pilot deadheading on a flight I’ve been on, unless they were wearing street clothes.
How many cabin upgrades are given per pilot upgrade?
For me, the issue is much less that deadheading pilots can be upgraded within 24 hours of flight; it’s that AA has chosen *not* to process most top tier upgrades in advance of 24 hours of flight. Pilots may be eligible at 24 hours, but CK, EXP, PP, and PLT are *all* eligible prior to that window. The real issue is that they are selling the seats for (relatively) low-cost upgrades rather than delivering on the premise of elite status benefits.
I, too, have decided to no longer make an effort for EXP; PP will be easy and enough. I also purchase the cabin I want most of the time, either upfront or through buy-ups. But I think it’s not fair to say those who don’t are whining because they didn’t get something for free. Elite customers didn’t define the program benefits, AA did – and those benefits are based on loyalty dollars so definitely not free.
AA continues to sell the premise of benefits based on loyalty but in fact the one benefit most people really want – upgrades – are no longer readily available. Gary is correct that this is not the pilots’ fault, but they are the latest example of a massive elite benefit dilution.
Pilots and FAs – if you don’t want your pictures posted by disgruntled passengers with status, please just change out of your uniforms before sitting down on that first class seat. It only takes a few minutes, will make you more comfortable and your lives easier, and shut up the entitled frequent flyers’ complaints. A win all around.
The pilots deadheading now get upgraded when available after full paying first class passengers. Next it will be deadheading flight attendants, than mechanics working at a downline station, and finally management on company business. The rules are changing. Maybe more passengers will now pay for first class instead of requesting a “free” upgrade. “Its all in the plan!’
Anyone “frustrated” because dead head pilot can take their place on the upgrade list (don’t bump confirmed passengers just move to front of upgrade list for open seats) doesn’t understand that dead heading to qualify is a small percentage of pilots that fly on planes and is an entitled ahole.
The sense of entitlement that “someone got what I am due” is disgusting. Get over yourself. No one is EVER guaranteed an upgrade. As others have said if you want first book it or pay for an upgrade. Frankly if I was EP (not anymore since retired and fall back on 3 million mile lifetime status which is only Platinum) I would be more upset at the continuous cheap upgrade offers to get $200 or less for an open seat than I am about pilots getting a more comfortable seat so they are better prepared to fly a plane when they land.
I prefer having a pilot who is arrived comfortably, better rested and with a positive attitude than one who is disgruntled about being cramped and achy in a middle seat in the back of the plane.
How is someone an exec platinum and somehow mad they spent $500 per ticket for economy from DFW/MIA MONTHS in advance? There are so many better and cheaper options… sounds like a skill issue.
Those of you who keeping screaming if you want first class buy it, for the love of Jesus Christ our lord and savior just stop already. Any dumbass knows that.
Airlines promote upgrades as a valuable reward for loyalty. It is clearly becoming harder to get that upgrade. It’s not just the pilot issue. In years leading up to COVID, I could usually find an instantly upgradable ticket on UA to some overseas place. Now you can spend hours using super flexible routes and dates, and often come away with nothing in a 3 – 4 month window. I’ve lost Plus Points the last two years.
If the airlines are monitizing premium seats good for them. But the value of elite status is shrinking as a result. It has me thinking about achieving 1K again this year vs. status on another airline or two for a few perks with them or, spending my overseas travel money on foreign carriers who often have a better product.
Elite status was never about upgrades. Want First, Buy First.
Elite status is about saving you time and granting you goodwill because of your loyalty. Saving time means priority lines and checked baggage tagging, even when you fly economy. Goodwill means letting your bag slide if it is 1 inch oversize and still fits on the plane for all intents and purposes. Saving time and goodwill means faster access to experienced service agents who can rebook you quickly because they don’t have to explain procedures that would need to be explained to a novice flyer.
I have been EP since 2017 or maybe 2018? I am pretty regularly upgraded on American Eagle flights or some mainline flights which are very short (like LAX-LAS). Otherwise, the fantasy that people have for an upgrade is complete and total lie passengers tell themselves. If you want to sit in First, then you need to pay for First. The only real benefit to EP is the 11x AAdvantage miles, which I do consider to be a useful currency flying on partner carriers. My home airport is LAX and we get a lot of choice here with partner carriers, which makes the currency uniquely valuable. Otherwise EP is just about personal pride, making it entirely useless and possibly corrosive to the soul.
The other maximum lie that is sold to EPs is that SWUs are meaningful. Not on this planet.
100% agree that Platinum Pro is the sweet spot because the best thing about oneworld Emerald is the First lounge access with partner airlines, particularly since LAX has the Qantas lounge – which is a real show stopper.
If you want to fly on AA the recipe for success is get the lounge card because the lounge staff can help you + Platinum Pro + Buy up to first and then if there is a better first option on UAL, DAL et al then go for it. Loyalty is about giving something up of yourself. Not worth it.
Chasing top-tier loyalty is more akin to casino roulette than strategic banking. Given gambling addiction in many loyalty members’ minds, top tier loyalty will do well. All those hours in cattle class just for the casino roulette chance of a first class cabin experience. Those of us with more of a strategic banking mindset are wondering why bother to try so hard, and wonder why we ourselves foolishly did not choose the career path of getting Air Force training on the taxpayer’s dime and get a $600k+ commercial pilot job with the perk of first class cabin guaranteed.
So, how much should I sweat the loyalty status? It’s changed so much and I thank this blog for keeping me abreast of the twists and turns, if not steep drops, in loyalty status. Gotta enter your loyalty number to play! Good luck to all loyal passengers!
Loyalty no longer means much at any airline, hotel, car rental, etc. I’ve decided that I no longer care about loyalty and I’m going to fly the airline that has the best flights where I’m going, stay in the best hotels at my destination, rent the car of my choice, and just pay for it. I’ve been a Hilton guy forever, going to Nashville next week and rented a suite at the Omni. A company that isn’t loyal to me doesn’t deserve my loyalty.
@John C-
Upper management has been getting positive space FC for my lifetime.
As far as other employee groups getting FC these company movements aren’t that common. It costs money to move them. This includes all employee groups.
The bigger threat to your upgrade is other passengers with status.
Over 25 years ago I was part of a group looking at the costs at our airline. The presenters were complaining about how low the yields were to Hawaii because of FF miles. I asked if they had thought people would use their miles to go to Buffalo (even though I love Buffalo in the summer). I was not asked to participate again.
As many others have stated, FF miles and upgrades a game where there are winners and losers. Gary posts how to get the most out of accumulating and spending points as well as obtaining status. But someone will always get a bigger piece of pie than you and I do.
Eyeroll. This again.
1) Domestic upgrades are far from the most important/useful/beneficial aspect of status. I fly 175K ish miles on AA and Oneworld airlines in a given year. I’d put domestic upgrades at maybe #8 or #9 on the list. SWUs however – hugely important, and I’ve only missed 3 such requests in my 11 years as EXP.
2) Credit card elites are taking far more upgrades from actual flyers than pilots are. Yet the blogs won’t complain about that.
@Bob – “credit card elites” are more profitable to airlines than “actual flyers” which is why airlines have prioritized them.
I reached AA gold in January and my daughter and I were upgraded to first class on one of our flights a couple of weeks later. There was actually an empty seat in first. I’m sure it was a fluke, but I can see why chasing status is appealing. It sure felt nice to get off the plane first and see our luggage come down the conveyer belt first!
For me, status upgrades ceased years ago, and even upgrades at booking using miles, PPs, GPUs, SWUs and the rest disappeared as well. For domestic, I buy F (or if a ridiculous price, will wait – upgrade offers swing wildly). For international, it is discount business class, upgrade with Avios (pricey but almost always available), or a discount award ticket. Loyalty is not a factor because there’s not much benefit. I just get what works best.
Hey everyone, so I am the “entitled brat” that took the second photo today.
I’m currently on the flight mentioned above and it was me that took the picture and made the 2nd tweet.
For some context, we paid $1000 for 2 RT Main Cabin tickets ($500 each) after looking at the points wanted for FC (200k-350k PER PERSON) we decided to pay cash plus using 4 of my Systemwide Upgrades would be best (they are about to expire….). AA wanted a ludicrous amout. Of miles and a ludicrous amount of cash (those of you saying $50 buy up offers, that is NOT the norm). We also never received a buy up offer.
There was NO confirmed space on any of the 11 DFW-MIA flights today (or for our return). So the agent looked and found 2 flights with 12 seats available and 9 seats available (return).
I figured something (one fo the myriad of ways I could have been upgraded) would clear since we booked 2 months out. It never did.
I called the EP desk 3 times. Checked the app daily. Nothing.
Then we get to the airport and we are #1 & #2 on the upgrade list, with seats STILL available in FC (out of 49 people).
Still doesn’t clear.
Then we go to the gate and ask the incredibly slow gate agent about the status of said Upgrades. She grabs her chin and then acts out a full on play scene with the other gate agent: “Hmmmm, do YOU see any available seats in First there?”. He says he “doesn’t know” as he is checking in Group 1 etc. I show her my AA app and show her that it says “seats available” and that my husband and I are at the top of the list. She then gets really RUDE. So my husband and I tell her to have a nice day and remind her we are paying, loyal customers.
We board and low and behold 2 “Crew” Pilots are sitting right next to each other in First.
I don’t care WHO they are. We are all in PUBLIC and they work for the PUBLIC and for US as loyal customers. I’ll take a video of them next time and zoom in on their badges. No one has any privacy these days, including myself. They don’t want to be noticed, wear a pullover.
AA needs to at a minimum extend our Systemwide Upgrades expiration date and then look at our return flights a week from now.
If someone at AA is reading this, I live in DFW and will GLADLY give you an earfull.
I don’t care how you split it, Loyal Revenue Passengers with multiple expensive AA credit cards and top status should sit upfront before and non-rev. PERIOD.
And just in case some of you are not reading correctly: WE ASKED FOR NOTHING FOR FREE. WE PAID CASH FOR OUR TICKETS AND USED SYSTEMWIDE UPGRADES WHICH DON’T COME CHEAP TO EARN. My Status as an EP and current amount of Loyalty Points was only for reference to those readers of the tweet.
I’m all for paying for what I want/need. I just also thought ot would be nice to use some of my “bank of benefits” on a shorter domestic flight with my husband. That is all. I can only be “fleeced” so much before I break. Today was that.
Thank you Gary for seeing my tweet and for including it in this discussion. I’ve read you daily for years and have learned a lot from you Sir.
AA is run for the benefit of it’s employees. Not it’s shareholders, and certainly not its passengers.
I decided a long time ago that I was better off buying cheap tickets on the lowest price carrier and using the saving to upgrade myself when I decided – not when AA’s system arbitrarily decided. Loyalty is a mug’s game – there are no free lunches.
Forget the complimentary upgrades, the bigger issue here is the complete inability to use SWUs on almost all flights. What used to be the most valued perk of top tier status is now borderline useless on most flights. They’re now about as useful as the BXP upgrades were.
It’s an entirely new ballgame. Going for the top tier isn’t my goal any more. Getting the most reasonably priced ticket and most reasonable flight time is my new goal. No more knee jerk loyalty. I think where we (the government) went wrong in the airline industry was allowing the UA/CO, DL/NW, AA/US mergers. Now if the customer is unhappy, there are few other places to take one’s business. Not enough players in the game to have true (capitalistic) competition.
I’m a retired pilot. When I want first class I pay for it.
Maybe other passengers should try this too.
@Benjamin G – God you are self centered, entitled and insufferable. You paid for the fare class you wanted w no guarantees (BTW no way DFW-MIA first is ever 200,000 miles u less you are going during a Super Bowl or similar event). Then you pull the “do you know who I am” with an agent and actually brag you “Karen it” by pulling out your phone and recording the employee (which BTW is not in compliance AA policy). No wonder the gate agent got an attitude – you gave it to them!
Next time buy first or fly private and quit whining on here. You won’t get any sympathy.
Delta (entire crew) and United have been putting crews in FC since the 70’s. AA started July 2023 with the most recent contract. Crews deadhead to work a flight afterwards-thus the reason for being in uniform. Its very rate for a crew member to deadhead, check in 24 prior, and cleared at the gate.
@benjamin g
WHO cares how you paid for your tickets and upgrades are on a standby basis so AA does not owe you anything (so why would agents want to listen-lol). Pilots do not work for the public or for you-there are some good online sites to explain this.
AA has always had a policy on harassment, bias, and discrimination. In the last few months, they are seriously applying this to an extreme with customers and employees. With identity theft, your threat of taking pictures of their company ID is harassment. Take warning or you may have no status or upgrade certificates.
@Warren Trout-
Yes that works 100% of the time for me.
The American pilots fell short of their United counterparts who are booked into premium cabin seating when deadheading – not just a priority for an upgrade.
Much of what’s driving this is airline scheduling systems that are turning pilots more, and more, into cabin passengers instead of the pilots they signed up to be. Sure, on occasion you might need to ride in the cabin somewhere, but it’s becoming way too common place. That, combined with the awful cabin experience that coach travel has become, and you get employee rebellion.
The goal of the pilots was not to ride around in premium cabins so much as it was to drive a change in the amount of deadheading the airline schedules them to do. Let’s see if it drives that change.
As I’ve been saying for years–
The problem with US Airlines is that they continue to collapse people into tighter, less comfortable seating. Coach seating of yesteryear is “First class” today.
Solution: Require ALL politicians to fly commercial cattle-class; No private jets, no upgrades — just plain old, crunched main cabin seating. Once that happens, seating problems will be fixed.
Until our “representatives” experience the things their constituents experience, nothing is going to change for the better.
What routes is everyone flying where upgrades are apparently impossible? I generally clear my upgrades, and have great luck with SWUs, but I definitely leverage EF to make sure my SWUs are likely to clear.
@david..excellent point.
Also, if someone fraudulently makes a copy of an airline ID, the fraudster could try to gain access to the cockpit and secure areas normally off limits.
It would probably not end well for the person who the person who took the picture.
Stop being entitled elites and just pay for the seat or be a bigger person and just enjoy the seat YOU got.
M
Three things:
1/ Want First…? Then buy First.
2/ conditions of employment come with every job, along with benefits. When I worked at the GAP, I got a 20% discount on their clothing. When I worked a union position, I had an explicit job contract with terms that were negotiated for me by the union – with working conditions and benefits spelled out to a T.
3/ most big employers have a travel policy to stipulate what cabin their employees travel in for business travel – it doesn’t matter that American happens to be an airline, they’re allowed to have a travel policy to allow their employees traveling on company business to sit up front, just like PwC and Deloitte and Amex all have policies for their business travelers.
Gary, I’m disappointed that you’re writing about this issue and making a fuss about it. You should know better and should know full well about corporate travel and airline union agreements. This is nothing new and has been around forever. Shame on you for stirring the pot just to get some clicks.
The most valuable customers are the big spenders . The ones who book FIRST. All others are frequent flyers with perks .
A uniform is a uniform but it may not be one of the airline’s employees. Y’all know that many corporate jet charter companies position their pilots in FC and many travel in uniform, right? Some of the larger freight airlines also have “world reserve” and position their crews on commercial flights, often in FC, to operate a flight upon arrival. My expat pilot contract specified Business on the 13 hour commute. So just because it’s a pilot in uniform doesn’t mean he/she took your free upgrade.
If you need a particular seat on a plane, buy it. Or at least buy the minimum that will meet the needs. Forget about upgrades. Set the expectation that what you secured with money is what you will get. Period. Let upgrades be a surprise versus an expectation. It’s the same with hotels. Don’t book a basic room and expect an upgrade. Book the minimum room type that is needed and be prepared for that. If an upgrade happens then great.
For myself as I no longer travel weekly for business purposes I just buy up front right off the bat. I used to buy coach and get upgraded on nearly every flight out of Miami. That was a decade ago. I’ve heard from many ExPlats that do not get upgrades all of the time. So just buy the minimum you need and get pleasantly surprised if an upgrade actually happens.
To the WFBF crowd. YOU are the problem. Yes it’s ALWAYS been about upgrades. It’s comical how airlines have conditioned their most valuable passengers to now be part of the “want first, buy first” EPs are now buying the highest % of first class seats. Seats they used to get upgraded to for FREE. Do you not see the irony in this? Game over. Airlines win. FOOLS!
I’m and EP with 430K+ loyalty points since last March and was on a DFW to MIA flight on a 787 last month…there were 8 seats available for upgrade on that flight and I was bumped down to #10 on the list… I was told by the gate agent there were 5 pilots who were at the top of the list. If you are traveling to a hub airport then you will see plenty of this happening. If the offer for upgrading comes up (which it does on nearly all my flights) if the price is right I do it. I’ve had offers for $135 on 3.5 hour flights… Then there are others going north of $1K that just aren’t worth it.
AA is prioritizing revenue over loyalty which, surprise surprise, it’s a business. I wouldn’t expect anything different. Since the new system of LPs was invented the value to being an EP is just crap. The only thing I have gotten out of it of any real value have been the loyalty rewards where I got a free pair of B&O earbuds ($350 value) and Admirals Club membership (I think now about $700). The worst thing is now the EP desk which they can say they blame on staffing cuts from the pandemic but in reality there are so many more EPs now that if you really need to get in touch with an agent, good luck. I have had wait times quoted on their system between 1h25 to 1h45 minutes. This is the EP desk that used to be so famously efficient.
As for the pilots being upgraded, they asked for it, they airline caved, so they got it. I personally think it’s ridiculous but I’m just a consumer. And like others I don’t have a whole lot of choice based on my home airport.
Hard to argue it isn’t a bad look. Premium pax getting priority below employees.
Funny, you never hear WN pilots complaining. See, they are just fine flying in coach. As should deadheading pilots for any other airline. They are simply entitled babies just like the FA’s. And I’m laughing at them all defending it here, along with pilot lovers that think they are some sort of god.
To the pilots who tell you here, “just buy a seat in F” I say….why the heck don’t you?
Where does it end? FA’s next? Why not active military. Hey, librarians and teachers need to be recognized and comfortable. Oh, doctors and nurses, yes, def them, as if there is an actual medical emergency guess who your first responder pilots and FA’s will turn to. I think we need to keep them the most comfortable.
What a joke the US airlines have become. And don’t even get me started on clogs and seatbelt barriers to the galley.
This topic keeps coming up but there are several points that repeatedly never get mentioned:
1. AA AGREED to this provision to allow pilots to be upgraded BEFORE elite passengers. It is a complete copout to blame the union – unless AA mgmt wants to argue they are really run by the unions, which may well be the case
2. AA could easily solve this problem by requiring any employees that sit in any premium class to NOT be in uniform and w/ their ID concealed.
3. Other airlines do have a similar provision but don’t seem to draw the attention that AA does. Maybe it is just Gary’s sensitivity to AA issues but I think it is more about execution.
4. Other airlines like WN are not unsafe because their pilots had to fly in coach and there is absolutely not a single case of an in-flight incident or accident that was related to a pilot having to sit to/from a flight in coach.
5. The idea that paying passengers should pay for an upgrade but employees of any kind should be able to get it for free is ridiculous.
6. The IRS allows companies to give discounts for their product up to 20% or pay imputed taxes. Airline seats are considered an exception because of the generally standby nature – but when AA is forcing paying customers to compete with employee upgrades even for company business, it would seem that the IRS would have more than an interest in the matter.
The whole idea of employees sitting in premium cabins IN UNIFORM is the problem. It degrades the customer experience and the promise of elite benefits – and is ripe for a review by the DOT which already believes airlines over-promise and under-deliver benefits.
@Tim Dunn-
I guess trying to hide a deadheading pilot will fix some complaints, but the fact will be that pilots are in FC ahead of other upgrades.
As far as #5, some companies pay for their employees to fly in a class other than economy. Airlines are doing the same. This isn’t leisure travel. Also, since this was negotiated, it isn’t free unless the airlines’ negotiators are completely incompetent.
This topic has hit a nerve with a lot of people for something that rarely happens. Deadheads are costly for the airlines. The FC upgrade is a minimal part of the cost. For example, a 4 hour deadhead to operate a 3 hour flight pays 7 hours at the airlines I’m familiar with.
They are deadheading – flying for company business. Most people flying in first class are flying for their company’s business. Why is this a problem? United has forgone the pax revenue here – deadheading is not standby where they wait for a seat to be free, they reserve the seat and it’s not for sale. This is literally another company choosing to reserve a FC seat for their staff and it’s a joke that you guys are complaining about it.
So here I am again to clear up a few things that “some” of the commenter obviously don’t get.
1: I NEVER filmed the gate agent or even whipped out my phone to threaten them. Period. They asked to see the upgrade list on the AA app that showed seats were currently available and I obliged. Period.
2: I never took a picture of the pilots badges OR FACES. There is a reason the photo is from the side while boarding.
3. Thank You to all the people who have commented/sent me messages who agree that there is at the least an issue with SWU’s being worthless, status being worthless, and Pilots wearing uniforms in FC ahead of paying customers.
I’m not entitled or a “karen” and I fully realize that I could have just paid the insane cash cost or points cost if I had wanted to have been fleeced. I didn’t. I have been fleeced by AA all year long and just wanted to use the Upgrade Instruments provided to me by AA, along with the cash spent.
My current EP status level and amount of LP’s was ONLY mentioned to give reference me feeling ripped by AA and to answer the myriad of questions I knew would come after said tweet. “Well someone had more status or LP than you” ext. No, no one did. We were #1 and #2 on the upgrade list ahead of 49 others.
AA needs to really rethink their strategy. At a minimum they should tell Pilots to wear a pullover or something.
Lastly, two comments really got under my skin.
One: Someone said a DFW-MIA would “never” be 200,000 miles “outside of a superbowl”. You should look at the CURRENT state of AA redemption. Especially in high season in South Florida less than 69 days out..
Two: Someone also said that “an EP paying $500 for a main cabin ticket sounds like a Skill Issue”…..Y’all realized that most of us with status are OVERSPENDING on tickets to get more LP’s to Re-Qualify the next year…..Right? I guarantee most EP’s and PP’s are as well. We are all on a hamster wheel. Sometimes we take a break, sometimes we get off, sometimes we ride it faster.
Anyways, my comments and tweet stand. I did nothing wrong and just pointed out my personal experience with an Airline and its Loyalty Program.
YAWN
…And this is why most people consider unions to be nothing but greedy, corrupt, archaic shake-down artists. I know of no other industry who would so willingly stick it to their best customers like this.
I have diamond status on Delta. Presumably, the main benefit is to be able to book a flight and have a better chance at any available upgrades on that flight. In reality, I will always book a first class ticket because I do not want to risk having no upgrades available. It is what it is. The status merely affords me a slightly more enthusiastic greeting at the lounge or gate. I suppose increased status would benefit me in the event that my flight were cancelled and the airline were to rebook passengers on other flights by priority. Delta Skymiles also has a benefit where you accumularte free drink vouchers. That is another perk that I will never use, since drinks are free in first class as it is. I never have any more than one glass of wine with a meal in flight anyway. The only perk that I value has to do with having priority in being re-booked on a flight after a cancellation. But in general, my preference is to fly first class and I do not object to paying the price in dollars. The secret to happiness in everything in life is to have low expectations.
This is how the world works now, get used to it. Youre a bunch on entitled men who really believe that you deserve FREE stuff cause you spend money regularly on an airline. What other industry owes you as well? Pay your money for first if you want it, you are NOT entitled to anything. IF you get a free upgrade, it’s a good day. IF you don’t, move on.
You’re complaining is boring and ridiculous.
@Ricport-
Unions didn’t do this. Companies giving benefits to employees, how terrible.
The top 10 highest paid CEO’s all make over 100M per year. Bottom employees make less.
Marriott gives free rooms to employees so I guess I should get them free too.
American isn’t paying for the upgrade the shareholders are as it is nothing but bad press. Could you imagine taking a client to a restaurant and say you can only have the lower priced options while I eat steak? Upgrades were an incentive to be loyal but if the company has no loyalty to the customer why should the customer have loyalty to the airline? The pilot or any employee is being paid for a service and what use to be common sense (before we allowed the mergers and minimal competition) you would not put there wants and needs above the people who actually pay there salaries. Your job as a company regardless of the industry is to cater to the people who pay your bills not vice versa. Show me a business whose mission statement is to put employees wants over the customers that makes a profit…
DA pilit.
1. I completely agree with you that this “problem” isn’t something that happens often or is one that airlines want to have because deadheading represents operational inefficiency which no airline wants to have and they generally do a pretty good job of avoiding.
but we live in the age of social media and camera phones which means everyone captures everything and then broadcasts it everywhere. Perception is not reality but companies do have to deal with it.
2. It is airlines, not labor, that have to deal w/ the perception of who they are favoring. I am not blaming pilot unions but mgmts that agreed to these benefits because it adversely affects customers. and the airline could change the way revenue upgrades are handled because most deadheading is still booked as coach and allowed to upgrade.. am I right?
3. I presume from your handle that you fly for Delta – so does this “problem” occur there or does Gary just happen to have a steady supply of complaints from AA passengers?
4. I also presume that if Delta gives this to its pilots it also gives it to its FAs since DL does nothing to give pilots a benefit that it won’t give to other employees. True or false.
5. You highlight the main issue in your last post in trying to compare yourself and other pilots to execs. Newsflash and forgive me for being the one to break it to you but you and your fellow pilots are not execs. You are production workers. Just because you get paid exec wages doesn’t make you an exec. You are paid as well as you do because pilot unions have done a good job of helping to ensure that the already tight supply of pilots remains tight.
and, again, the IRS has rules about what it can give away
US airlines have avoided having to collect taxes on employee air travel because it is standby – after all chances have been made to sell that seat.
The issue is as much that allowing employees of any category to upgrade into a seat that a revenue passenger is competing for – even if they are using upgrades which are not “hard revenue” raises the question of taxation of benefits.
I don’t think you or any one of your pilots wants to go where the IRS could take this if the DOT decides to go after employee upgrades that compete with revenue passengers of any type.
I presume
@FrankS (and others) – accept the new reality. I’m longtime EP (3 million butt in seat miles on AA) and up until 5-6 years ago I probably got upgraded 90% of the time. That isn’t reality now. Airlines are monetizing first more than ever w initial pricing and upgrade offers. Also frankly with the way you can game LPs it isn’t as hard to get EP. In fact it is only slightly more exclusive than Hilton Diamond status so PLEASE quit with the “I’m an EP” BS as it really doesn’t matter that much.
I enjoyed the upgrades as much as anyone but no airline is doing it like years ago and that won’t change. If you don’t want to fly AA fine but others have similar policies. BTW Gary is stirring the pot but AA isn’t alone in allowing deadhead pilots in first and frankly that isn’t nearly as common as many seem to think.
Personally after 40 years of heavy travel I am now retired and off the hamster wheel. I have lifetime status with AA, DL and UA plus lifetime status with most hotel groups including Hilton Diamond and Marriott Titanium. I fly who I want, stay where I want and get so sick of others continuing to whine.
@Tim Dunne-
Most of the people upgrading are not “execs”. They’re not any more or less important than anyone else on the airplane. And a good portion (most?) of them got their miles from the company or credit card spending, not their wallet.
Your threat about the IRS rings hollow. This is business travel so there would be no IRS issues unless the IRS is going to charge passengers for their upgrades as well. That thread would be way more involved than this one.
first, I am not threatening anything.
If you don’t understand how much the feds want to get in airlines’ business and how ticked off customers are for being promised something and not getting it
It doesn’t matter that airlines don’t do it any worse than any other sector but airlines are the industry to rag on.
If you don’t understand that reality and think you are above it, then you will be in for a rude awakening.
And the IRS has also allowed FF programs to not be taxed which is why those same customers that you deride remain loyal to your employer which has done a better job of monetizing loyalty than any other airline on the planet.
regardless of whether some see it as whining or not, legacy airlines have promised benefits based on loyalty and continue to change and tighten the rules. Many consumers and legislators are not amused, to put it mildly.
Again, don’t underestimate how much Delta depends on maintaining the status quo out of the prying eyes of the .gov.
AA doesn’t make much money which is rooted in how their employees treat their customers. DL and UA and their employees should know better.
and you are still just a production worker.
and do you get hotel points or does Delta negotiate rates that don’t allow them?
@Tim Dunn-
I can only imagine the howling if AA/UA/DL pilots started getting hotel points.
Clearly you don’t understand the difference between positive space business travel and space available leisure travel. The IRS isn’t about to tax them in my lifetime.
And even some “production workers” get upgrades. This isn’t an elite club for “Execs”. I have status with airlines and hotels that come more from credit cards than actual flights. Gary just got me 100K UA miles with his post about the United MP Business Card. Thanks Gary!
@ Andy
You are dead wrong. I, like many, PAY for F class. What AA is doing is disgusting! The pilots need to “rest” is a friggin’ joke.
DA pilit
again, your employer benefits more than any airline in the world from the fact that the IRS does not tax frequent flyer miles. a change to the status quo would be devastating to Delta and therefore to you via your profit sharing if no other way.
You would do well to note that when even a handful of legacy carrier prime customers are ticked off, you would do well to take it seriously rather than blow it off.
Your arrogance in responding to this article reinforces the stereotype that Delta pilots are the most arrogant in the industry.
@Tim Dunn-
You infer that because pilots are deadheading in FC, the IRS might crack down on FF awards. That’s ridiculous in my opinion. But then I’m only a former production worker.
Over the years a few congressional representatives have had the idea to tax these “perks”. It hasn’t gone well, and I think the important “execs” that have these points had these thoughts quashed very quickly.
you clearly missed the part about giving away products to employees before paying customers get a chance to use them.
Glad to hear you are “former” but it also explains why a former Delta pilot jumped into a discussion that implicated AA pilots.
production employee, yes you are.
@Tim Dunne-
Interesting you say I’m not an “Exec” but just a “production employee”, but still think I’m the arrogant one.
When I was working, I appreciated all my passengers equally. I treated Grandma in 32E the same as “Execs” in 1A. I appreciated repeat customers and felt they were more than compensated in free travel and upgrades, among other perks. But those were the decisions of management to make.
BTW, I never said I worked for Delta, you did.
I posted here months ago that this was happing flagship from JFK to CA and was subsequently told by many that I was wrong…more than wrong…delusional perhaps
Yeah bring the apologies…you know who you are.
On almost every flight I see a lot of Executive Platinum and even Concierge Key members not getting upgraded. I am an Executive Platinum, but I buy first class tickets only. I see the Concierge Key members board first but when I get on the plane, they are not in First. I watch all of the Executive Platinum luggage tags walk on back. I hear the complaints that Executive Platinum perks are near worthless. My wife is a Platinum Pro and she will not buy First Class seats when she travels alone. She gets an upgrade very rarely. The perks are just not there anymore for loyalty. Seeing a pilot in First by a person who never or rarely gets upgraded is just adding insult to injury. If AA raises the bar again to qualify for status that will just make people angry too. With the constant downgrading of First Class meals and service it makes me wonder if they want to be like Southwest and just not have a First Class cabin. This is their way of getting there.
so what does the DA stand for?
and I’m not talking about how you treated grandma.
I am talking about your defense of the rights of pilots to get the best seat in the house because of this post:
“The top 10 highest paid CEO’s all make over 100M per year. Bottom employees make less.
Marriott gives free rooms to employees so I guess I should get them free too.”
what companies give executives has no bearing on what you as/were a production employee get. The class envy is great until it turns on you as a pilot, isn’t it?
Marriott gives away what the IRS allows. You and unions seem to think you can negotiate to endlessly drain your employer’s supply and the IRS says there are limits.
and beyond that there is the perception issue -regardless of whether it happens once or twice or a million times, crew members in uniform in first class while there are passengers left on the upgrade list is ALWAYS going to cause problems.
I said before and will say again that the best way is for crew members to put their IDs away and wear a sweater over their shirt on first class – or the airlines will be forced to negotiate that employees can only sit in FC if they are not in uniform.
No company can repeatedly ignore the concerns of its top revenue passengers and expect to remain the choice for those customers.
@Tim Dunn-
I guess your idea to wear street clothes solves this for you but it puzzles me. If you don’t see it, it’s not an issue but to me nothing is different.
And we disagree about the IRS. The airlines are not giving employees anything the IRS doesn’t allow any more than a company that buys a FC ticket for an employee is at risk with the IRS. To think that the IRS will see pilots in uniform and impose taxes makes no sense to me.
As others posted, the miles are nice to get a free ticket, but upgrades are few and far between, so the best bet is to actually pay for it. The airlines have done a great job of getting people to think they are important elites if they get the coveted upgrade.
I don’t get these upgrades because I’m no longer a working employee. Having done this job, I’m fine with working pilots getting this (FA’s too), but clearly that’s an issue for some. It’s not about me (or any envy), it’s the consideration of others. And they don’t get this upgrade if passengers pay for it.
We still get travel benefits but use them less than once a year. They’re not that great. We actually buy tickets or use miles for the class of service we want. Thanks to Gary we get several free trips a year by using CC’s wisely.
Finally stopped raining so I’ll let you have the last comment. Hopefully, you know your health is more important than your status, and one day it won’t matter if you are an “exec” or how many points you have.
I’m glad you are retired. You clearly struggle to connect the dots.
Whether someone is in street clothes is about perception to CUSTOMERS.
The IRS cares because they limit the discounts that companies can give their employees AND allows airlines to provide tax-free travel to employees because they don’t compete with revenue passengers for those seats because they are given away on a standby basis after seat sales end. Allowing first class passengers to upgrade in the same cycle as paying passengers throws that notion out the window.
What other non-airline companies allow their employees to do is immaterial because those non-airline companies don’t produce airline seats. Their restriction would be on financial services, auto manufacturing, or film production….
I’m a free agent also. I buy from whatever supplier that gives me the best value. I use credit card benefits but generally not for travel because other credit card benefits yield more value for me. YMMV.