No airline U.S. airline has leaned into branding more than Delta, often obnoxiously and with ridiculous levels of absurdity.
They’re a little bit better than competitors in terms of reliability and friendliness though their long haul business class isn’t better and their seat pitch isn’t better and their IT isn’t better. (American’s business class seat on every widebody is better than what Delta offers on its Boeing 767s.)
Paul Graham makes an interesting point about brands, that we’ve moved into a historical era where brands matter more than the underlying companies or products.
- Brands started as signals of quality. Originally, a brand name told buyers that a product came from a known maker with a reputation to protect.
- Modern companies often don’t manufacture what they sell—they coordinate supply chains, contractors, and partners across the world. The brand becomes the stable identity tying it all together. Even airlines have regional carriers operating under their name.
- Ultimately the brand becomes the real company. In many industries the physical production is interchangeable, while the brand (Nike, Apple) is the main asset that creates value. Strong brands allow firms to outsource production, coordinate complex supply chains, and sell similar goods at huge price differences. Basic Comfort+ and basic business!
- Consumers increasingly buy identity, not just products. People choose brands partly for what they signal socially (status, taste, tribe), not just for functionality. It isn’t just schedule and price.
Delta realized this shift in consumer behavior a decade ago, when American Airlines was still focused on trying to compete with Spirit and Frontier over low fares despite their high cost base. Their efforts to ‘win New York’ and other markets have focused as much on messaging as on schedules. They’ve done sponsorships to become part of the local market there and in Seattle.
One of the key themes I’ve been offering over the last year, since American’s ‘premium pivot’, is that American needs more than a laundry list of imporvements like Bollinger champagne. They need a brand narrative which starts with the CEO simply explaining where they’re going, what their North Star is, and selling that to both customers and to employees.
Product and policy improvements need to be understood in a context, which is their brand narrative – where they’re going and what each decision means. They need to tell a premium story, not just make premium investments. And then that story helps guide decision-making as well.
Here’s why this matters:
- Loyalty revenue is high-margin, reported variously by Delta, United and American as ranging from 39% – 53%. American Express revenue for Delta is up to $8 billion. And Delta offers low value currency, but customers associate with the brand.
- Airlines report that premium unit revenue now outperforms main cabin. People aren’t just paying extra for square footage or the marginal cost of food. Successful carriers are monetizing preference and status.
American Airlines Chief Customer Officer Heather Garboden argues that one point of net promoter score improvement yields $50 million to $100 million in revenue. That’s important because prior to the airline’s ‘pivot to premium’ its net promoter score had collapsed.
Obviously airline operations matter, you have to get the substance right in order to have a premium brand first. But it’s important to tell the brand story, too. That’s not just committing to ads. It’s been awhile since we have seen a big American Airlines ad budget (they do run targeted ads in social media). The campaigns this management has done have fallen flat because they failed to promote a clear vision of who the company is trying to be, other than perhaps (in 2016) the one that most disappoints the greatest flyers.
This 2014 Delta ad actually makes me cry. Delta got you home because it matters.
Their Donald Sutherland ads were great, though not quite as good as Gene Hackman was for United in the late 80s (listen to him close this ad from 1990). And was there ever a better ad than this one solidifying Delta as the carrier for the consultant class and entrepreneurs?
A story of who you are and who you are trying to become matters, as a way of customers understanding you. It only works when that story is clarifying for the company as well, and gives them a frame for how they make decisions. A brand is not just marketing! It’s something that Singapore Airlines understands well.
In 2004 American ran a series of ‘We Know Why You Fly’ commercials. They weren’t great, and it was a tough time for the airline. But one spot stood out. A premium cabin passenger was flying home from Japan after marathon business meetings and socializing, and he was half asleep slumping into the seat – finally able to relax, now that American was bringing him home. That was their customer. It should have been clarifying, where every decision gets made around delivering for (in this case, and at that time) ‘him’.
American should probably run ads again, just to force themselves to answer the question ‘who is our customer’ and to show that to employees.
Some of the image is real and some of it is fluff albeit fluff can sell. Delta might have IFE on most of it’s narrowbodies (except for maybe the 717s) but is also pioneering the basic economy strategy in premium cabins. After you paid for an upgrade or purchased first to find out it’s another $50-$100 bucks for a seat assignment.
The difference in within operations and operational efficiency and recovery. AA took the road of the ULCCs. You got a cheap fare so forget about us figuring out how to get you to your destination on time or communicating to you about delays. You paid $39 for your seat. You will get there when you get there.
Look at the US3 and all considered the hard product is about the same. The seats are nearly the same. The meals are the same. The clubs are about the same. All three have varying degrees of crew.
No, Gary, brands mean nothing. Reliability, consistency, resolution. That means something. DL, AA, UA, B6 and the rest win some, lose some.
Let’s be clear: We’re living in the age of monsters. The most corrupt, selfish, stupid, and violent appear to be winning, lest we do something about it.
“The thing of it is… we really did have everything, didn’t we? …I mean, when ya think about it…” (Don’t Look Up)
I think Delta has lost some of its edge. It’s still marginally better than its competitors, but not dramatically so. That said, they’ve built an extremely loyal following and a strong reputation as the “nice” airline to fly, even though they’re often more expensive. 767 business class is definitely one of the areas they’ve lost their edge (in addition to being less innovation, slightly worse service, and reliability declines)
To call out your comment on seat pitch (at least in domestic economy) Delta still has higher average pitch seat pitch narrow-body economy.. On average, Delta offers slightly more pitch than United or American. Many aircraft and rows still have 31 inches of pitch, although some of that advantage has eroded as more seats have been converted to Delta Comfort.
interesting
The 717 is an interesting situation. From a passenger tech perspective it’s not the most modern aircraft, but it’s still a mainline plane and often serves as an alternative to regional jets, which many travelers prefer.
Delta’s lounges are also meaningfully better than most competitors’. Beyond the hard product, Delta has been very effective at brand storytelling. They’ve created a strong halo effect around the brand, and until the last few years, I think the experience generally backed up that positioning.
I think the next couple of years will be important for them. The gap between Delta and the other major U.S. carriers has narrowed somewhat, partly because Delta has slipped a bit from its peak and partly because competitors have improved. If the experience doesn’t fully match the brand narrative, Delta may need to keep turning up the marketing volume or risk losing some of its perceived edge.
American had a strong brand in 1968 and 1980 but not in 2026.
You’ve been the CEO of how many airlines?
Not until Isom and the rest of the incredibly incompetent America West team are fired from American will things change for the better.
Ask ANY AA employee what the problem is brand wise or operationally. And they will tell you #1 is employee morale. It is in the gutter from the cockpit to baggage claim because of Isom and team. He is totally destroying the AA brand and company by his lack of leadership skills and total incompetence.
Again, ask ANY employee.
Delta & United aren’t good airlines, AA is just dog sh*t.
@DesertGhost – why are you incapable of making an actual argument (or identifying a single thing I’ve written that is incorrect), yet you still copy and paste the same comment ad nauseam? Thank you for reading everything that I write, however!
@Alex
“To call out your comment on seat pitch (at least in domestic economy) Delta still has higher average pitch seat pitch narrow-body economy.. On average, Delta offers slightly more pitch than United or American. ”
Just like many things Delta, 31″ seat pitch was something said they have, but they do not. 30″ is their default economy seat pitch. On most planes, Delta’s first class narrow body seat pitch is less than AA and United and ALWAYS on their bulkhead first class row — I’m always amazed Delta isn’t called out on this more.
Delta’s own website confirms that 30″ — the same as AA oasis and most UA planes — is the Delta economy default seat pitch and there are zero fleet plans to change it to their made up 31″ minimum number they’ve touted and lied about in the past.
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/overview
It was reported in Ad Age that AA is our for RFP and they are planning on dumping their current agency(which is good because they have sucked). I would really like AA to bring back the “Doing What we Do Best” once they start doing it again.
And still Doug Isom leads AA further into the abyss, apparently with full support of the board of directors. Their ground staff is lacking and so is there inflight cabin staff, who is many cases are too busy texting to welcome people on board. Even the more senior, generally excellent crew members are being dragged down the morale descent. In- flight recruitment must have a difficult job, as I would question wanting to start a career with a terrible product
Yes, Doug Parker, Doug Isom and USAirways ruined American and I hope they are happy.
max,
as usual you lie and manipulate because you can’t stand to admit that DL really does do something better.
I just looked at Aerolopa for six Delta narrowbodies and on NOT ONE of them does it say that DL has 30″ pitch in coach. 31 inches IS the standard pitch.
In no place on Delta’s website does it say that 30 inches is the DEFAULT pitch even on domestic aircraft. A number of models do not have LESS than 31 inch.
You can badmouth whatever you want but you tout statistics that are easily verifiable, you will lose every time
none of which changes that Gary is correct that DL has established a premium image that neither AA OR UA have managed to do.
AA has failed to do what DL has managed to do.
Admit it.
When Paul Graham calls it “The Brand Age”, we minions listen.
“Brand is what’s left when the substantive differences between products disappear. But making the substantive differences between products disappear is what technology naturally tends to do. So what happened to the Swiss watch industry is not merely an interesting outlier. It’s very much a story of our times”
@ Tim — And you can’t see that UA does alot right, too. DL is mostly thriving off its past success — employees are happy from that success, so they are more likely to make customers happy, too. That won’t remain a unique advantage forever.
“as usual you lie and manipulate because you can’t stand to admit that DL really does do something better. I just looked at Aerolopa for six Delta narrowbodies and on NOT ONE of them does it say that DL has 30″ pitch in coach. 31 inches IS the standard pitch.”
Oh tim…
lol. So I link to Delta’s OWN WEBSITE saying 30″ on most narrow bodies in economy and you’re saying Delta doesn’t know their own planes, huh? lol
You’re an idiot most days but you really one upped yourself tonight… try looking at delta.com — they list their own seat pitch.
This is a lame and pathetic response… even for you. Grow up lol. I didn’t make Delta’s LOPA or promise 31″ minimum seat pitch in economy. Delta did both of those things and their own website shows them as the same in economy as AA Oasis and with most planes, on average, with less first class seat pitch.
As a recovered Delta fanboy I’m not so sure that they’re really standing for much good these days outside of avoiding denied boarding compensation. Their loyalty program is the worst in the nation by a wide margin, their credit card is the least accepted of the major brands, they have really bad business class seats on their 767’s, their famed punctuality has cratered, and they do miserably during meltdowns (during which their CEO likes to depart abruptly to go on vacation). That’s hardly a sterling record. A decade ago I’d have said that you’re right that Delta has a widely respected brand; now, not really.
no, max,
DL’s own website doesn’t even have 30 inch pitch on a number of narrowbody domestic aircraft LET ALONE say that is the default.
Lame and pathetic is manipulating actual verifiable data because you can’t acccept that DL really does do some things better than AA and UA.
Is it enought for DL to be considered more premium? that is for the public to decide.
But you WILL NOT get by with manipulating data because you can’t accept that DL does some things better than AA and UA
Gene,
Yes, DL people are more happy. Has to do with paying them more including profit sharing. You think that AA employees might be a lot happier if they got profit sharing as good as DL employees get?
The current rendition of AA is the last of the Big Three Mergers that took place and many of the issues can be tracked back to a BRAND in transition prior to the integration of LAA and LUS in 2013. Doug Parker orchestrated the Merger and the Integration (went smoother than most give Him credit for) but things surfaced in 2016 when Scott Kiby was terminated and took many of the Executive Team with him to United. For some outrageous reason Isom was selected as Heir to the Throne and he was one of the worst choices to Lead a Company of this size. The Employees never cared for him (Less than Parker) or trusted he knew WTH he was actually doing and made multiple blunders along the way. Critics want to continually bash their Logo, their Livery, the most minimal details that really do not make a helluva lot of sense in how a business operates. One of the Biggest flaws at AA is The Leadership (like Iran, a Failed State) and until the Board gets someone in there that the Employees respect and want to work for, little if anything will change. AA has lots of potential and is a Huge Operation but the Employees or Customers have little faith in Isom and his countless screw ups and double talk to right the ship. I know several Employees and they despise him.
go to bed, you inept idiot. lol
how early did you get black out and run to your keyboard tonight?
Per delta.com planes with 30″ in economy (aka. the standard economy pitch on Delta narrow bodies):
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a220-100
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a319
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a320
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/717
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/737-900er
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-200 (75H)
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/boeing/757-300
You’re funny but just an idiot sometimes. The fact that you even try to argue with Delta’s own website with first aerolopa then clicking.
Try some links, buddy. I didn’t design Delta’s LOPA, Delta did. I didn’t lie about a standard of 31′ “Standard” pitch in economy, Delta’s CEO did. Get a grip, loser and find a better use of your time.
@Tim Dunn, for the 757-200 75H, Delta’s own Web site says 30-32 inches.
For the 737-900ER 739, it says 30-31 inches.
For the 757-300, it says 30-31 inches.
Maybe you should take your own advice and get off the Internet?
absolutely nowhere does it say that 30 inch is DL’s default.
It says a range and some aircraft do not list any seat at 30 inch while for some it is a range from 30-32.
30 inch cannot be the Default if multiple aircraft have 32 inch.
My first statement is correct.
Max cannot accept that DL does some things better than AA or UA and that is JUST ONE SMALL PART of why DL is perceived as higher quality, which Gary accurately noted.
You can sit here and lie and manipulate data all you want – you do it all time time on every subject but this little exercise just proved that 30 inches is NOT the default pitch in economy; thank you for proving your own case wrong.
and the complete hypocrisy is that AA and UA’s STANDARD economy pitch on their aircraft IS 30 inches and Aerolopa confirms it
let’s let max manipulator provide links to AA and UA’s seat maps where 30 really IS the default and 32 inch or higher doesn’t exist anywhere except in emergency exit rows which both AA and UA frequently classify as their extra legroom economy seats
You tremendously overstate Delta’s brand. The average American who regularly flies has no perception that Delta is better than United or American. Part of this “ignorance” is that to the extent Delta is “better,” the quality difference is tiny and random. Personally, as someone with elite status in all 3 airline alliances, I would NEVER recommend anyone fly Delta over its competitors unless it were cheaper or faster to their destination.
Grow up, Tim
this is one of the stupidest non-data based arguments you’ve ever tried to make.
Delta does a lot of thing well and I completely agree with Gary about delta and their brand and how they saw it ahead of everyone else. But most people familiar with airlines and what they actually offer vs what they market realize it’s just marketing. The TVs at most mainline seats (not all) are a great plus if it matters to a customer, but the rest of the Delta gleam is largely marketing from bad seat pitch in first competitors to charging premium loyalty pax more for Y+ vs AA and UA along with Y+ being a laughable “Upgrade” vs an assigned seat on other carriers for elites. .
I’m well aware of the marketing gleam.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-seat-pitch-below-31/
“Bastian made a bold statement about his airline’s seat pitch: ‘As long as I’m CEO, Delta Air Lines is not reducing its seat pitch below 31 inches.’ Delta is a premium airline and that it offers a premium product, Bastian said, ”
Yes. Delta goes below 31″ on nearly every domestic narrowbody, per even their own website. Tim, Grow up and stop yelling and screaming at others because you don’t like the decisions DELTA MADE and then lied about from the CEO on. He said it in 2017 and there has been ZERO attempt or plan to change their minimum standard economy pitch at 30″ — not even on brand new A221s, delivered after he said that.
Given the current climate in the world with our government and immigration and people, I can imagine a Marketing campaign that simply plays into:
“We’re American”
There. That will be $10M. I’ll send wire details. 🙂
PS. Add in a bunch of AA employee’s who are immigrants and their backstories or them in their work, pull in talk about the destinations they offer and how they “built” the modern miles program.
“We’re American”
Make people want to fly who they are. Americans.
So Spectrum Boy is back defending Georgia Klan Air again but not noting that DL actually lost to UA in multiple new traveller rating publications for the second year in a row (but 2nd place is better than 5th like AA, except for Fflyer programs where AA wins and DL is worst of course). Sorry you were triggered. Safe spaces can be found at ATL…except now due to another WX DL meltdown.
The only person that needs to grow up, Max, is you.
YOU came on here saying that 30 inches is DL’s “default” economy seat pitch and yet there are multiple models that have 31 and 32 inch.
and you FAIL, as you always do, to note that 30 inches IS actually the DEFAULT economy seat pitch for AA and UA.
You simply are incapable of admitting that DL does do some things better than other airlines.
And, most significantly, you can’t stand to admit that Gary accurately noted that DL has managed to create an image of premium service and they deliver far close to that standard than any other US airline.
Actual data, and not your manipulated and cherrypicked data shows that.
Once again, you stick your nose into a discussion, manipulate data and statements, and then using your own links, I am able to prove that your own statements are inaccurate.
The only thing you are is max hypocrisy and lies. Any grown up, including me, can see that.
just.
walk.
away.
in shame
you’re weird, tim
lol
Find a hobby
As usual, facts and delta.com have a real habit of ruining your argument 😉
I am accurate, Max.
Weird is someone that butts into a conversation asserting one thing and being told forcefully and repeatedly that your statement:
“Just like many things Delta, 31″ seat pitch was something said they have, but they do not. 30″ is their default economy seat pitch.”
Not only does DL have 31 inch pitch and all of the links show it but nowhere in any of those links is your statement about a 30″ pitch supported.
Further, you don’t note that 30″ IS the standard or default or whatever made-up name you want to use for AA and UA.
DL does have far more seats in standard economy with 31″ or greater pitch than AA or UA.
Don’t make stupid and inaccurate statements and you won’t get called out for them.
What is weird is that you have been called out for the exact same thing and yet you keep coming back and trying again and again.
What is even more weird is that you can’t accept that Gary’s original statement about DL conveying a premium image is accurate and AA has not achieved that.
Just.
Walk.
Away.
In shame
oh Tim
pick a side an argument. You just hate to be proven wrong with links that you can’t dispute.
God, you’re just an idiot and so desperate…
Happy Saturday and stop celebrating your mental issues this way 😉
My position is crystal clear and my mind is as sharp as ever.
You were caught spouting lies using the links you provided.
Idiots don’t smoke out liars like you.
As usual, you don’t have the common sense to admit you were wrong or at least walk away.
I guess I missed your links you posted countered to delta .com I provided
grow up and provide data, tim 😉
what a dumbass you are
there really is nothing more satisfying than using delta dot com to prove you to be an idiot 😉
it’s not tough, but you make it easy and funny
I don’t need to post links, Max.
You incriminated yourself w/ the links you provided.
The links simply don’t support your statement of any “default” pitch.
They do show that DL has aircraft with standard pitch that is greater than AA or UA’s standard or default pitch.
What is sad is that you are too arrogant to admit that you were and are wrong and so you keep arguing.
The only idiot is the one that allows someone to shoot you with their own gun – which is exactly what you did.
Max, Spectrum Boy does not understand facts when it comes to his sycophancy for Georgia Klan Air. He does not let facts get in the way of the religious-like zeal. That is normal (no pun intended) for those on the spectrum like Timmy.
“Yes, Doug Parker, Doug Isom and USAirways ruined American and I hope they are happy.”
This Doug Isom has got to go.