American Airlines isn’t just negotiating with its pilots. They have an amendable contract with flight attendants as well, and have for years. Negotiations have progressed slowly but the Association of Professional Flight Attendants has now presented their economic proposal to the company. And as some in Dallas might say, bless their hearts?
- 35% raises – so that starting pay goes from $30.35 per hour to $41 per hour, and the top of the scale goes up to $95 per hour – plus 6% annual raises on top of that.
- Pay for time spent during boarding, which unions haven’t made a priority in the past because higher wages in lieu of pay during boarding benefits their most senior members. But now that non-union Delta added this without negotiations their members are jealous.
- Premium pay for working the galley, and for night time flying.
- Higher per diem allowances “along with a ‘me too’ clause that would see allowances increase automatically if pilots won a higher rate.”
It’s quaint that flight attendants think they have the bargaining leverage to automatically get what pilots get. Pilots are in shorter supply and can do far more to bring an airline to a halt, so have much greater leverage. That’s why pilots get better benefits.
Years ago, it became a meme in public policy discussions that you could improve any proposal by adding “that everyone would have their own pony!”
An an airline passenger, I may wish for better inflight meals and ice cream sundaes on shorter flights. But someone else can make a better proposal – better inflight meals and ice cream sundaes and Laurent-Perrier Grand Siecle. And I respond well, sure, Laurent-Perrier Grand Siecle and a pony!
American Airlines flight attendants, for their part, have made their economic proposal better by asking for the whole farm.
There’s this strange notion of negotiations that some people have, maybe they got it from television or by reading The Art Of The Deal, that you want to start really high because you’re going to wind up meeting in the middle. The higher your opening offer, the better your final result. That’s not how any of this works.
Rather, there’s a zone of possible agreement. Flight attendant pay will be similar at the major airlines, with differences based on priorities of management and the union. Some will want slightly higher pay and more generous work rules, others will prefer stricter work rules and somewhat lower pay. But there’s a certain amount that an airline can expect to pay in terms of economic cost across all of the elements of the contract. Sometimes delay changes the economic conditions – for better or worse – and thus the expected contract cost.
Of course before even presenting their proposal to the company, the flight attendants union asked for a federal mediator, the first step in a potential strike (since the National Mediation Board has to ‘release’ a union to ‘self help’ in order to strike).
At the same time that the union is negotiating aggressively in public, I’m told that leadership actually worked closely with the airline to bring back the attendance ‘points system’ that cabin crew loathe, that penalizes employees for calling in sick. The union feared that high sick rates would mean that the company scheduled more crew to work reserve as a backup, which is bad for senior members of the union.
Just say no!
AA flight attendants already make it clear that they despise passengers. They just want prices to go up more so they fly empty planes?
AA should just stick to cargo.
If I’m AA, I’d send the head of the union a reply email that simply has a gif of Charlie Murphy laughing during the “Prince” skit on Chapelle’s Show.
It seems to me with a pretty generous offer out there to AA pilots, there’s going to be little to nothing left for FAs.
Bless their hearts.
Signed,
Delta Flight Attendants
I say let’s give the FAs this raise, run the airline into insolvency, and then shut down this airline for good. AA sucks, even compared to the general level of suckage of US airlines.
Here you go again with your anti-union rhetoric and republican talking points… good thing I have my ad blocker enabled 🙂
I thought today was April Fools day, had to check today’s date. This will NEVER happen! They will be lucky to still have jobs and take a 3.5% raise if they are lucky! This is a BROKE company! Good luck to all that work there!
There’s no shortage of pilots applying for the majors, that problem exists only at the regionals. The flight attendants have just as much bargaining power. Quite frankly, with how low the inflight service has been rated, you’d think management would want to invest in improving the flight attendant contracts to attract better talent
Who wants to fly an airline with well-paid pilots and flight attendants? Unacceptable! From now on, I’m only using NetJets. lol
Flight attendants have as much bargaining power. Pilots may fly the plane but without a flight attendants onboard planes can go anywhere. You can’t even board a plane without minimum amount of flight attendants. I once fle for AA as an fa and pilots are only qualified to do one thing and that’s fly. The intelligence and everything else is not there
UA/AFA is actually rightfully asking for more than APFA! You clearly don’t do your research. Just babble, babble.
FAs deserve better pay than pilots, relative to their peers. Pilots have virtually no impact on the passenger experience assuming everyone arrives. A good pilot versus a slightly better pilot means nothing for passengers. However a marginally better or worse FA makes all the difference for passenger experience. This isnt Top Gun, instead of racing to pay the “best” pilots, pay the best flight attendants (under the condition you can fire the bad ones).
Wonder which AA flight attendant rejected the author?
I’m very passionate about working aviation but I’m also very passionate about putting food on the table and paying for rent. Stick to your travel reviews and leave your anti-union view out.
@LG – what have I written that you believe is mistaken?
@LRon – “A good pilot versus a slightly better pilot means nothing for passengers.”
Paging Captain Sully, the passengers of US 1549 are still in the Hudson
Ultimately pilots aren’t paid on quality, of course. They’re paid collectively because they are scarce, difficult to replace, and can damage an airline in ways flight attendants can’t to the same degree.
This site used to have a lot more quality content, specifically about reviews of products and decent analysis. In the last year or two, it’s seemed to be shifting more to hot takes and clickbait-ish articles.
@Ben – flight attendants don’t have the same ability to reject an aircraft or slow down an operation, and flight attendants are more easily replaced and don’t take nearly as much training once they do
@Alex – why do you think I’m a Republican?
@Gary, that is why I said “assuming everyone arrives.” Captain Sully was an outlier. Plenty of Captain Others whose experience didn’t help avert a catastrophic situation, and in many cases caused it themselves through pilot error.
@ Gary — I’m changing careers.
Fleet Service demands Pilots & Flight Attendents load and cater the planes and we’ll push them for $100k raise!
You do realize flight attendants are people, not robots, no? People deserving of decent working conditions and a livable wage?
The privilege exhibited in this article is disgusting.
FWIW, I’m a “real” professional – not a member of the profession you openly disdain. But then again, ensuring your safety during air travel – or, God forbid, a crash – isn’t that a big deal, is it?
inflation since the last contract is around 20%, and with straight reserve that $41 starting pay is still less than $40k a year while living in some of the most expensive cities in the country. The me too clauses are not used on pay, they are based on smaller items that are mostly connected anyway. Of course you are correct that pilots have more bargaining power, and they will be getting a much larger increase in pay percentage as well as actual pay. But this article is not very balanced or reasonable at all.
We flew Southwest for the first time last week, and were in shock that the FAs were friendly. Friendly! How can that be, American FAs? Why didn’t they treat the self loading cargo like garbage as you do? It’s almost like they didn’t hate us by default. And yet you all want raises? How about doing something to earn raises, like focusing on making the inhumane experience of flying a little better for the passengers? Nah. Too hard for you, clearly.
Flight Attendants are easily replaceable if they strike. I worked as a Manager for an airline where flight attendants chose to strike. I received about 3 days of emergency situation training and was summoned to replace striking flight attendants. Passengers loved us..
Pure Greed
Pilots get 600k and y’all are mad at basically a cost of living raise for people who are there to save your life. We will all be laughing Gary when we get even more when we match DL and UA pay scales so pathetic.
@Tom I’m pretty sure there are a lot more FA’s than FA managers. AA has strikes in the past and FA’s have more leverage than ever.
Well Gary your choice of the word (Demand) is quite a bit different than a proposal. Demand makes it sound like the union stormed into Isom’s office shaking their fists in his face with their “demands”. But of course I realize using that word is like throwing red meat to the many posters on your blog that loathe all flight attendants (especially AA).
I received the email from APFA and not once did I see the word “demand”. I would encourage you to be a bit more circumspect in your choice of words.
The sad truth is that they’re a lot more disposable than pilots and since there’s no shortage of new hires, the more they can get to quit off the top the better. Just ask an AA SFO FA how they feel. FAs have a s***y customer service job, I feel for them, but yeah. Takes the company inordinate amounts of $ to train and retain pilots. And they can really gum up an operation. Takes nice FAs to keep pax happy, but they’ve got new hires on a production line to keep staffing up. Rough business.
New flight attendant to pilot: “How long was your new hire training? Mine was four weeks.”
Pilot: “About seven weeks.”
Flight Attendant: “What! Only three more weeks. I should have been a pilot!”
Poor, poor, poor American Airlines Flight Attendants…they’re just a bunch of unfortunate victims…
@tom…must have been outside the US. FAA hasn’t allowed less than 10 days for safety/security training in years.
I was an AA Flight Attendant for 16 years. I am saddened to hear that they could be close to striking. I was on the picket line in 1993, scared to death for my future. We didn’t get a great contract out of that and it cause lots of dissension within. AA does not see FA’s as being as important as the pilots. Never have, never will. Unfortunately, the FA’s think they are irreplaceable and aren’t staying in the profession for the right reasons. I loved my job and usually worked first class so I could have fun and enjoy myself. In coach I was told I talked to much which slowed the service down. They wanted to get back to their seats, books, etc. It is nothing like it used to be. The unions have created a safe space for crappy employees.
@Steve
So what verb would you use? Proposal is not a verb, in case you forgot your elementary school lessons.
@LRon
Are these FAs the same as the ones Sara Nelson says are the “last line of defense”?
For the United flight where a man tried to open the emergency exit and passengers restrained him:
“Aviation’s first responders are charged with the safety of everyone onboard,” Nelson said. “When incidents like this happen, it not only risks the safety of the crew involved, it takes away from flight attendants’ ability to respond to medical, safety, or security emergencies.” Nelson said. “It puts everyone at risk and there’s zero tolerance for that.”
Sara Nelson says incidents like this take away from FAs ability to respond to emergencies. Does she mean they shouldn’t have responded to this because …
Obviously she misspoke as she really doesn’t think FAs do anything for safety. “Last” in the phrase “last line of defense” must mean slowest, not to be used as first-line.
AA flight attendants took a 33% pay cut after 9/11 to “save the company” and after 23 years are still making less money than they made when 9/11 happened.
@James proposal from “propose” or “to propose”
verb
1.
put forward (an idea or plan) for consideration or discussion by others.
James says:
March 9, 2023 at 11:35 pm
@Steve
So what verb would you use? Proposal is not a verb, in case you forgot your elementary school lessons.
@Bernie…what a crack up…s***y customer service job. HAAA!!!! Yeah that’s what I do. 40+ years of traveling the World and stayed that long because it’s s***y. I can guarantee you I have more degrees than you have but who cares. I wanted to stay in such a s***y job. So sorry you hate yours. You need to live a little guy. Get out of the office.
@Ex AA…I don’t believe you were ever a flight attendant. Shows right through your comment.
The comments on this article remind me that most of you don’t even travel. You sit at home and wish you did. It also reminds me that you manage no one in your line of work. When you want better service from people or a company these comments are not the way to achieve that. Go back to your remote control and box of Popeyes.
Being a flight attendant requires no foresight in life other than waking up one day wanting to be a flight attendant and being able to lift a suitcase and show up on time. The airline will train you up in a couple months.
Being a pilot requires substantial training, skill that must be learned, and a scientific mind. It’s not the same thing.
These flight attendants are paid better than nurses, and nursing requires an advanced degree, extensive training, and far more responsibility. There’s a fair rate for flight attendants, and it’s not $40-$95 an hour. And I say that as someone who is generally pro-union and has been in a union before.
And no, I’m not a nurse or a pilot.
These demands are nuts. Pay nurses more, not flight attendants.
“flight attendants don’t have the same ability to reject an aircraft or slow down an operation, and flight attendants are more easily replaced and don’t take nearly as much training once they do”
What you think about ground crew? Especially with the misconception that they are just “baggage handlers”. They actually do a lot more and have more responsibility than a flight attendant or gate agent/ ticket agent at that.
FA are expendable. Call their bluff, hire scabs. There’s millions of restaurants with friendlier, customer service focused staff who would love to upgrade for what the FA’s currently get.
Younger and easier on the eyes in most cases too!
It’s the beginning of negotiations, both sides implement a so called wish list of demands and then try to meet in the middle, this is what collective bargaining is and I’m in solidarity with any card carrying union member. it’s time organized labor begins to squeeze on all these corporations, this country needs more UNIONS! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!
LMAO you people must be so miserable in your own lives and it shows in your comments.
Gary you fly AA and FA’s read this crap … so …..
Hysterically funny! And the American Airlines vortex & death spiral continues.
Are you kidding me? Quaint?
Flight attendants with less than 10 years seniority are currently quitting in droves because they cannot make ends meet with what the company pays us.
Not only are we not paid for boarding, we are also not paid for delays of any kind. And when you factor in that most of us are working 3-4 flights in a day, that’s a lot of boardings and constant delays (sometimes of several hours) that we are working for FREE. What other job in the world expects you to work for free?
We have not had a raise to our pay scale in over 10 years, despite incredible inflation rates. Money has been the single largest stressor in my life for the past several years and I am currently working more hours than I ever have.
We flight attendants need to pay our rents too, you know? We are actual human beings.
Your tone is unbelievably condescending and desrespectful. Clearly you have no idea how hard we work and how much heart we put into helping our passengers.
I sincerely hope to never have you on one of my flights.
I recall the last AA flight attendant strike in 1993. The company had informally determined that they could replace the striking flight attendants in about six weeks by only training replacements on one type of aircraft. Then POTUS stepped in and twisted AA management’s arms and AA had to give in. I wonder what would happen in similar circumstances today.
@Tim….interesting. I thought Gary only flew Delta. For the rest of these yayhoos…next time you get bad service on the plane, just get up, head to the lav and take a good look in the mirror. It’s your own fault because as Tim stated, flight attendants read your comments. Most of us just laugh and realize how much you hate your own life, therefore enjoy trying to push others down to your level. Sad.
Hi all, I would love to get $40 an hour, working in hospitality like the FAs!
I am a tour manager/Cruise director and get approx $130 a DAY for 12 to 14 hour days
And, I have to be knowledgeable AND friendly AND SMILE ALL THE TIME: it’s like being an actor: the moment there are passengers around we are on stage/on camera, giving 100++%
Yes I sometimes get tips, but can NEVER count on that, and yes, there are people who do not agree with tipping a “professional”… and give nothing (and that’s another story not relevant here!)
With tips it still works out at approx $200 day = $16.66 a day for 12 hours!!!
Most importantly, to keep being offered work I HAVE to score 9.6/10 or higher in client/passenger evaluations.
I LOVE what I do and although I would love to receive $40/$50/$130+++ an HOUR I know that is not realistic
FAs can probably earn more being a host/waiter, but they probably like being in different cities/countries every few days and not doing “normal” hours
We all know that being of service is what FAs should be doing, helping the passengers have the most memorable and enjoyable flight ever, valuing that the passengers have spent hard earned money to fly on business or for pleasure!!
How hard can it be to smile and look after us??
Heaven forbid there is an emergency: will the smile and caring for others suddenly be switched in??
Hmmm
Thanks for reading!
Sending everyone a big smile and wishing everyone memorably wonderful journeys!
The comments from the anti union scab lovers on this thread make me sick. I encourage the union to stay strong and bring this company to their knees. And to the union haters and scab lovers on this thread, I have one piece of advice: [redacted -gl]
@JS
being a flight attendant your right there’s only 7 weeks training but then you go to refresher training once a year and you deal with lots of stuff you weren’t even trained for I am a retired paramedic took 9 months of training after being a EMT for 10 yrs and being a paramedic you go to recertification every 5 yrs…. Flight attendants are paid 65 bucks per hr and will never reach the salary nurses do attendants are paid way differently we can work 15 hr days and get paid only 8 hrs of that 65 65 starts when doors close AND brakes released and ends when brakes are applied at the gate and doors open we are or can be gone for say 6 days and get paid for 21 hrs out of those 6 days gone…. We don’t get paid during boarding or deplaning…. So that 65 that may be incredible to look at does not go very far in the real world. Minimum wage went from 7.50 to 15 and most places hire here at 20 bucks and in big cities 25 per hr and are paid for every hr they are at work.. inflation has gone up 20% that 65 so asking for 35% in our world is not really that much. When we go to retrain once a year or refresher class we get paid 75 dollars for the entire 8-10 hr day we don’t get paid 65 per hr… when we sit at airports for 4-5 hrs waiting for our next sequence to start we’re not getting 65 we’re delayed with all the passengers on the plane for 2-3 hrs again we’re not getting 65……it’s a different world flying being a paramedic for 15 yrs I was at work 24 hrs I’d get paid for full 24 hrs nurses are at work 12 hrs they get paid 12 hrs or paid 1 hr there not cause of lunch and they are making much more then attendants do…. Now teachers… there’s a better story, teachers they should be getting paid more then all of us!!!
Just wait til’ the THOUSANDS paroled Venezuelans/Cubans/Haitians (forgot if there’s more nationalities on the Humanitarian Parole process) begin to get their green cards. Know too many dreaming about being FA’s and I bet you they will be willing to do it, demanding way less than the longtime spoiled crews. Supply/demand adjustment courtesy of the open borders policy.
They want a pay raise for serving drinks and complaining about their seats not smoothly sliding in and out of their tracks. FA’s complain more than any other career field in Aviation. They spend maybe 6 weeks in class to learn how to serve drinks and tell people to buckle their seat belts. All while aircraft mechanics spend nearly 2 years in school and are responsible for all those lives in the aircraft if they make a mistake yet, FA’s get paid more than we do. Get off your high horse, and go back to waiting tables!
@Angry Mechanic
1) yes I agree. You are definitely angry.
2) not sure what airline you work for but last time I looked my mechanics made more than me.
3) this leads me to believe that, like so many other commenters on here, you are not really a mechanic but playing keyboard cowboy for the day.
4) the big 4 are all hiring. If you think we make more and it’s such an easy job then you should go for it. You might actually like it.
5) have a great day. Buh-Bye
Just because you are serving on an airplane doesn’t mean that you have a special skill set that warrants a high salary. Those skills can be taught to virtually anyone in a matter of weeks or less.
Pilots want $590,000 a year meanwhile gate agents and airport employees are making poverty wages
Andrew c says:
March 10, 2023 at 7:36 pm
Pilots want $590,000 a year meanwhile gate agents and airport employees are making poverty wages
=======≈=======
I say;
Maybe Andrew could get his Batchelor degree, then spend more than 100k for flight training , then APPLY for a pilot job.
@Jaimie…yes I do have a special skill set and it’s something that can’t be taught. You figure it out. Hint…Read some of the comments on this blogger’s articles.
@Pilot Flyer…EXACTLY!!!
Unfortunately all one can read in most of these comments is pure ignorance about what the job and responsibilities of a flight attendant are.
Before you attempt to comment about anything you should really try to know the facts so you will be able to talk about it in an educated manner.. Otherwise you make a fool of yourself.
Pay seems really high but the problem with flight attendant job is that your duty day can be more than 10 hours but only get paid 5 hours. Let’s say you do 4 flights a day. Those 4 boarding time which is 4 hours are unpaid. Ground time between the flight lets say from san to sfo, once you complete that flight, the time you wait for the next flight isn’t paid. So even though pay seems high, it really isn’t, especially for the junior flight attendants. It’s even worse when you are working at a regional airline.
Gary, you and all your keyboard edge lord fans can dump on us and demean us if it makes you feel good. We will still save your lives if you need us to. If a fire breaks out on a plane, we will put it out. If you get injured in severe turbulence, we will dress your wounds. If the plane loses pressure, we will make sure you don’t die from hypoxia. If you think you’re having a stroke or heart attack, or if your feverish child loses consciousness, we will contact a physician on the ground and communicate with them to asses conditions – while getting you oxygen, and preparing a defibrillator if needed. If there is an emergency landing, we will get you off the plane alive, and we won’t jump down the slides until everyone of you has. Go ahead. Insult us all you want. We won’t let that stop us on the day we have to do our actual job for you. And we won’t let the insults stop us from demanding a decent salary for our work. So have at it. Nothing you hurl at us has any impact one way or the other.
It is a peculiar feature of human society that we continue to amplify the ramblings of uninformed blogger journalists. Having a Platinum card and a pile of frequent flyer miles does not make one an aviation expert. It does not require years of job experience or education, but one would expect an amateur journalist or even a low level aviation geek to at least have a conversation with actual flight attendants, pilots, and other individuals who make things fly before putting their hands on the keyboard. Frankly, these articles are getting exhausting.
Funny how critics like @Peter Westwood say “you’re not an expert” but never identify a single thing written here that’s incorrect, they simply *do not like* it even though it is accurate. They prefer to dismiss the feelz.
I’m all for paying all airline employees a fair salary. But with that comes an expectation as a passenger that I’ll be greeted warmly and given meaningful assistance when needed, as well as feel appreciated for my loyalty. And with ticket prices continuing to rise, be given a meal during the flight that is healthy and delicious. If salaries go up and tickets get even more expensive then passengers will find alternative transportation.
35% is actually pretty low in comparison to what the union should be asking for. Inflation has increased 20% percent since the last contract expired. Duty days have also increased with longer unpaid sit times. After you account for these 2 factors, this opening proposal is pretty weak. It actually barely keeps up with inflation. This really should be what the union settles with, not start with. To the author, pilots at the big 4 airlines actually don’t have as much leverage as you might think. All the big 4 airlines have to do is pay better than the regionals and the low cost carriers which is were the pilot shortage is doing damage. Even then, pay increases won’t fix the pilot shortage. The biggest thing stopping potential pilots from going to aviation is the cost. Until airlines start paying for flight school from beginning to end, people simply are not going to take the risk of becoming a commercial pilot. On the other hand, most flight attendants at mainline have college degrees and other skill sets which they could use. In fact, a large percentage choose being a flight attendant as a second carrier. Considering flight attendants make about what a school teacher makes, there isn’t really much keeping new hires around. Certainly not enough to cover turnover at a cost efficient rate. So yes, 35% is minimum that flight attendant unions should accept.
As a retired AA employee of 24 years. I traveled as a commuter for 3 years and being a ground agent I got to see first hand all of what flight attendants do. Being in customer service only gives us a glimpse of what FA’s actually do. I have an enormous amount of respect for their job as they not only have to provide a beverage /meal service to the spoiled and privileged getting verbally abused by our ignorant and mentally unstable passengers… they have to provide safety and medical tasks when warranted. Give them a pay raise before the law changes and you have to be mentally cleared to fly.