Due to a lack of pilots, major airlines have left scores of small markets. And the biggest airlines have virtually indistinguishable operations, offering seats with basically the same layout (same width, same legroom within a couple of inches) and very similar service levels.
The largest airports are congested. In some cases this is due to government slot restrictions. In other cases it’s how government-owned airports manage their gates, keeping new entrants out. Either way, it’s difficult for new carriers to break in.
In response to this, new airlines have started – or are trying to start – using rules that were laid out by the FAA.
- Use planes with no more than 30 seats, and you can have co-pilots with 250 hours of flight experience paired with 1,500 hour captains (similar rules to what was permitted at major carriers before 2010, and that many senior pilots flying today started their careers under).
- This can mean taking 50 seat regional jets and outfitting them with just 30 seats, as JSX does. That means ‘everyone flies first class’. JSX offers free snacks, free drinks, free checked bags and StarLink internet which performs better than what any major airline offers because the satellites are in a lower orbit (signals don’t have to travel as far).
- And even these operations can even fly out of private terminals offering greater convenience.
- Regional carrier SkyWest has proposed an operation, entirely legal under current rules, that would follow the JSX model to provide service to small communities that can’t sustain service with large aircraft and $200,000+ per year pilots.
There hasn’t been a single safety issue identified with Part 380 carriers complying with the rules applicable to Part 121 operations. In fact, the rulemaking even notes that “the FAA has adjusted its oversight of these increased operations” and has not expressed a concern about JSX or similar carriers.
The only reason the agency cites for potentially banning their operation is they’ve grown, but that is literally what the rules – and the Department of Transportation – are designed for. According to the government, they’re proceeding “in light of recent high-volume operations” but:
- They step into a breach created by abdication of markets and product offerings of major airlines
- The DOT is supposed to support abundant, safe, and efficient air travel.
There’s no logical reason for this proceeding, at this time, other than that the Air Line Pilots Association doesn’t like to see more co-pilots flying with fewer than 1,500 hours of training because it provides a paid path towards more commercial pilots, helping to address the pilot shortage which gives them leverage in negotiations.
The rule does nothing to promote safety since the hours can be racked up with the same clear air single engine takeoffs and landings from the same airports, rinse repeat. Hours can even be racked up in a hot air balloon. The balloon can even be tethered. The rule is just about creating a barrier of time and cost to become a pilot.
- The Department of Transportation and NTSB have both said they see no correlation between co-pilot flight hours and safety.
- Europe has maintained just as safe an operating environment as the U.S. without adopting a similar rule.
- What the U.S. did at the same time as legislate the 1,500 hour rule for commercial airline co-pilots is also institute stricter pilot rest requirements that do, in fact, matter. Pilot fatigue is a real issue for safety.
While at JSX they have 30,000 hour captains mentoring sub-1,500 hour co-pilots. Their operations call for different experience than is needed to fly transoceanic in a widebody aircraft with hundreds of passengers. They’re flying 30 seat regional jets on largely one and two hour flights in and out of the same airports. You don’t need co-pilots relieving captains for hours at a time. These flights have among the most experience up front among domestic operations. And since 90% of their flights overnight at base, pilots mostly sleep in their own beds – far better for fatigue than at nearly all Part 121 carriers.
American Airlines joined ALPA (and other unions) in calling for JSX to be banned. They don’t like having a premium airline based in their home city of Dallas, employing many of their own retired senior captains and providing a competing product. I chose to fly JSX to Dallas even while I was an American Airlines ConciergeKey member because of the product they offer which I’ve found to be usually cheaper than American’s own premium fares.
JSX has been popular, and they’ve grown. That attracted the attention of ALPA and American Airlines, and the government now proposes to ban them for no other reason than this growth. They do not have safety concerns. It’s purely about changing regulatory definitions to eliminate flying that could serve small markets, and eliminate competition for a major airline. They want to shoot JSX (and by extension SkyWest Charter) dead because they offer too much value to passengers.
This effort is worthwhile to ALPA and American because,
- They may kill a competitor
- Even if they don’t, they distract the airline and cause it to burn cash on lawyers and lobbyists
- And slow down growth, because facing uncertainty new capital expenses likely makes less sense – why spend millions converting planes they may not be allowed to continue operating?
The FAA is making clear that airlines are a cartel and that’s how they’re going to stay. That’s regulatory capture, by the major airlines and by the largest pilot union. And we shouldn’t put up with that in this country. The FAA is taking public comment and is legally required to consider what you have to say.
Aha! You’re on Alex’s payroll…!!! Finally understood who’s sponsoring View From The Wing.
Crony Capitalism at its finest.
Rather than everyone just complaining, please follow the link in Gary’s post and leave a comment.
In almost every city that has had essential air services or where the federal or local government put up subsidies or operating credits, as soon as the free money goes, so does the service.
Wish JetX was in the local market here. On Delta to ATL, you may get water but often no service.
Go comment or the lobbyist wins. They may win anyway, but you can comment and write a congressman. Amazing how much effect that has sometimes.
Why would I want to fly AA or any other airline besides JSX, if I had the opportunity to fly JSX? Fewer passengers, more space and better service, and it may actually be cheaper.
I wonder why we keep doing things like this to ourselves, protecting poor performers from “losing” to superior ones? I’m pro-union because I believe workers uniting to more powerfully advocate for themselves against their corporate employers is a good thing; but it seems these organizations are more frequently over-reaching beyond their mandates and stifling innovation for the sake of protecting their underperforming membership. Can’t be good for the country, and certainly not for consumers.
Part 135 or 380? Might want to double check that.
In all honesty I never knew how JSX got away with operating as a 135 when they clearly market as a 121. I figured they were rule bending a bit.
Let’s not forget that AA tried for years to keep WN out of DFW and do all possible to limit the size of Love Field – and have largely succeeded.
But that chain around WN falls off in just a couple years and WN will be free to expand wherever in N. Texas it wants.
It is a given that they won’t stay just at Love Field.
As for the comment about only getting water on DL, let me know if they filed anything to support the shutdown of JSX.
There is an article on Skywest on another site today which discusses their strategies that include trying to serve small cities dependent in part on FAA regulations. You should be able to google news on Skywest and find it.
Amen, Gary.
Love JSX. We could benefit from more like them, not the opposite.
Thank you, Gary, for the link to comment in your article. JSX is the only airline that would allow my 40-pound non-service dog to travel with me between Los Angeles and the Bay Area. Perhaps my comment to the FAA will at least be heard.
You would be singing a different tune if a major accident resulted from this loophole. I can already hear it now: “why didn’t govt regulators do more?”
How much are JSX paying you for this repetitive shilling?
The FAA is highly biased.
“My name is Gary Leff and I hate pilots.”
Yeah, we get it . . . Over and over again.
Gary should get his own jet and hire his own 250 hour pilots to fly it with unlimited leg room and services. Or start his own airline for himself and rack up points on Gary Air.
To all not in the industry …. Do not look to a points and miles blogger for ANY kind of accurate view points. I don’t agree with suppressing the media ever … it’s what makes America aweome but don’t be fooled by this guy. He’s off his hinges.
When I snag a really nice table at a restaurant (JSX), I don’t presuppose I know the rigor of the kitchen inspections or health standards of the chef that night. As any experienced 121 Captain will tell you, training a fresh F/O, though rewarding, can be a huge distraction in frequently demanding circumstances. Experience and repetition matters…even in a single propellor plane on a sunny day. The current US rule (the country with unmatched airline safety) was formed on blood lost, not overarching unionism.
If they’re operating as a scheduled carrier..they need to follow the same rules as everyone else. Otherwise, if you’re really interested in competition, you would be arguing for all carries to be able to operate Part 135… Not just your favorite one.
Here’s how it works:
FAA assigns risk assumed to people.
1. People on the ground assume zero risk and are therefore provided maximum protection.
2. Passengers of airlines assume some risk (we all know flying is done at speed and altitude) but not a lot… passengers assume it’s safe.
3. Passengers on a charter assume even more risk and as a result get less protection from the FAA.
3. Pilots flying cargo get even less protection… 121 supplemental need I say more?
4 pilots flying themselves or their boss? Very little protection from the FAA.
Part 121 : scheduled airlines. The airline picks the destination.
Part 135: charter. The passenger picks the destination.
Part 91: private. The passenger picks AND operates
So…
Airlines have most regulations as they protect the passengers the most.
Charter has some regulations but not as many as they somewhat protect the passenger but acknowledge the passenger assumes some risk.
Private has few regulations as the FAA is mostly protecting people on the ground at that point. “91..get’er done” is a real saying.
So you have a charter outfit trying to use charter rules to run scheduled operations. That breaks the mold. Who’s picking the airports? The passenger or the airline? If you want to be an airline and pick the cities then your operating under part 121 and if you try to weasel out under charter (reduced) rules then you’re cheating.
@SMR
Curious why are you reading and commenting on this “off the hinges “ blog?
@Walter – to be absolutely 100% clear I have not taken a dime from JSX, from SkyWest Charter, or any other airline.
@1KBrad – I think pilots overall do a fantastic job. I also think special interests going to the government to limit competition is generally a bad thing.
@John – Nope.
@SMR Rather than just saying he’s “off his hinges”, can you enlighten us as to how he’s incorrect? Gary has had plenty of posts with useful information and plenty of posts that I just don’t agree with in the slightest – one does not invalidate the other. So he’s given his information, what is your information as to how that’s wrong?
I was a very very early user of SurfAir, Jetsmarter and Jetsuit before the rebranded to JSX. I’ve personally seen corporations going after these smaller ( by comparison) companies and trying to bully them out of existence for the sake of a pseudo monopoly. So all this information rings very true. Moreover I’ve talked with pilots of companies like this outside of their professional hours and the majority were pleased with the option of working for something like JSX.
Again, noone is infallible, I’ve disagreed with him before on other things but he’s given decent information and linked to the official site. What is wrong with what he’s said? How is it bad for pilots? From my perspective how does eliminating competition help pilots or consumers?
@Walter @Omar the same goes for you, if you all have Information that’s counter to the accident record of JSX type entities or how they are maligning pilots please share.
I mean this with sincerity, looking for factual information not a mud slinging match or schoolyard insult spree.
Typo: ban them for now other reason than this growth <— now/no
E
Can someone please explain why a certain level of “safety” is acceptable for a flight when passengers are from a group, but is life-threatening when a similarly sized group of passengers are not related?
Apparently the FAA is okay with a dangerous flying as long as all the seats are taken by the same entity.
Either the rule has nothing to do with safety, or the FAA is grossly negligent in its regulation of charters.
The 1,500 hour rule has nothing whatsoever to do with safety. FAA and NTSB have said there is no correlation between pilot training hours and safety outcomes. Pilots develop bad habits in the quest for these hours that have to be trained out of them. They can build the hours IN BALLOONS. THAT ARE TETHERED.
The purpose of this rule is to make it costly and time consuming to become a pilot, so that there are fewer pilots, and pilot unions have greater leverage in negotiations. That is all.
There were other changes made at the same time that did have value – pilot rest rules – fatigue is a real issue. Don’t confuse real safety issues with naked self-interest couched as safety.
All of the commenters who attack me, or dismiss me, but offer no argument whatsoever about why what I have written is wrong — they reveal the bankruptcy of their position. Sad.
THIS EFFORT BY ALPA (and American) IS WRONG, and I’m willing to say so.
New airlines and business models should be encouraged as this benefits consumers. JSX should be allowed to operate and expand.
Regarding building time toward the 1,500 hour rule in a balloon, I’ll say this. None of the time sitting in your tethered balloon will help you meet the various cross country & instrument requirements. Few balloons can help with the night flight time either. To actually log the flight time, you can’t sit in a lawn chair tied to some helium balloons. The balloon would need to be certificated and the pilot would need to be rated to fly it. The argument is rather ludicrous, because any airline hiring board would flesh out a candidate who built his time “tethered” and likely disqualify them as they were not conducted in a powered aircraft. A glider pilot would have similar issues though of a different nature.
Where I said, powered “aircraft”, I intended to say “airplane”. This is a distinction with a difference as the two terms are completely different in the eyes of the FAA and this rule.
Per CFR 14 1.1
“Aircraft” means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air. (like a balloon)
“Airplane” means an engine-driven fixed-wing aircraft heavier than air, that is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. (no balloons here)
This has the making of another 737-MAX8 disaster — slippery slope at its best. So many company shills told us it was safe after the first crash because “There hadn’t been a single safety issue identified” with it and therefore it was the (non-white) pilots’ fault they crashed.
Right.
Hopefully the FAA is no longer in the hands of lobbyists and won’t cave like it did in 2019, when it dragged its feet grounding that flawed plane.
>”legally required to consider what you have to say.”
They ain’t gonna consider shit.
Wow, some really angry posters aiming at the author of this article. Why so mad? Whats with the hate of JSX? I mean, the airline has pretty much been growing and maintaining its own business, not bothering anyone else. I have heard plenty of positive reviews on JSX. They provide a quality product, run on time for the most part, and have a pretty good safety record. Is there some jealousy going on?
The carve out that JSX is using was designed for an aircraft that was far less capable than the aircraft JSX is using. The regulations were designed long ago before the 50 seat regional jet entered the market. Self imposing seat and cargo restrictions does not meet the intent of the regulations. This is the problem.
Hmmm, neither JSX or SkyWest are union airlines.
@Don – this is false, the Bombardier CRJ predates 14 CFR Part 380
@Tim – you can do 500 of the 1,500 hours in a balloon (not all of the time)
Difference with Skywest is that they want to operate scheduled codeshare flights for United with 30 seaters. It’s not simply “charters” like JSX. If they weren’t trying to game the system I don’t think the feds would be looking to alter the regulations.
We need JSX free market is the name of the game. Service is so bad lately its borderline abuse. Something needs to change
The current FAA rules that moved the hours required from 250 to 1500 was pure BS and a political move not supported by any science. It was a reaction to The Colgan crash and when the FAA sent teams to the major carriers (at least the meetings I put together in Atlanta) they were advised NOT to just raise the limit as it would cause the shortages we are seeing now. They had to “do something” also of the 5 person ream. They sent to gather comment only one was a pilot and the PM had lost her husband on a GA crash 2 years prior. Go figure. Government oversight ain’t always 20/20.
Gary,
you, far more than any other blogger, take on controversial issues and you take polarizing positions. It is not a surprise that there are people that mercilessly attack you while others defend you. That is the nature of the US and many western countries.
Some bloggers deal w/ other controversial issues but don’t take a position while others basically just report news.
I genuinely appreciate the “flavor” of this site in informing readers about challenging topics in aviation and facilitating discussion.
I far prefer these types of articles to the anecdotal airline customer service failure or bad customer story. Like 1000X prefer.
carry on.
I thought the issue was, as per the FAA RFQ, that these airlines “appear to be offered to the public as essentially indistinguishable from flights conducted by air carriers as supplemental or domestic operations” and thereby blurs the line between a “public charter” vs. a commercial airline. As such, the companies operating as a public charter should be required to operate under the same rules as a commercial airline.
Two criteria that appear to be material is: (1) the number of passengers on the aircraft and (2) the flying experience required by the pilots.
From your article, it seems that pairing a very experienced pilot with a very junior pilot is typical in these scenarios. It’s worth noting that disparity in experience that leads to the junior pilot taking a subservient role in the cockpit has led to multiple incidents involving fatalities.
Regardless, the article seems to focus more on the ulterior motives of various organizations. It also seems the push is not to “ban” JSX but rather if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, perhaps it should follow the same rules that all ducks go by? Whether those rules should apply to a duck should likely be discussed distinctly.
Thank you for posting the link. I am opposed to this operation.
You mention that JSX will have paired 30,000 hour Captains with less experienced First Officers. First of all that is not required or guaranteed. And maybe some of these 30,000 hour Captains like myself are not as sharp as they once were. For all your statements about how low hours doesn’t matter, you always mention that it’s okay because there will be someone with experience. You can’t have it both ways. Is it safe for two 250 hour pilots to fly you around?
JSX operation currently allows a 250 hour First Officer to be paired with a 1500 hour Captain. And there are no hour requirements in aircraft type.
And if the FAA allows the security system to remain for JSX operations, all airlines/airports should be able to operate with the same criteria.
@DA Pilit – “maybe some of these 30,000 hour Captains like myself are not as sharp as they once were.”
Oh, you mean more hours doesn’t mean safer?
You stated “They do not have safety concerns”. Is this based on SMS data or just your opinion? Have you ever flown with a 250 hour pilot? Do you even know why Part 121 regulations were changed so that 250 hour pilots could no longer qualify? That used to be the rule, but it changed for a very good reason. Do you know what that reason is? These senior pilots you speak of. Are they 68 and above? And flying with pilots with little to no experience? This article is simply an advertisement for JSX. I would suggest doing more research into aviation safety and the history of operations like this before posting something with little to no factual arguments.
The while 1500h rule does nothing to promote safety. All the rest of the world allowes pilots with just 250h and targeted airline training to fly in the right seat of an airliner, and many of those markets are safer than the US.
Get rid of the stupid 1500h rule and align with the rest of the world and the peoblem is solved.
DA Pilit,
I’d love for you to explain how aircraft accidents happen involving pilots that were relatively new to their airplane – such as the UA 767 landing incident at IAH and maybe the DL 767 MXP hail incident. Should pilots not be allowed to do anything new even if they are experienced and meet other requirements?
and how is it that the majority of aircraft accidents that are labeled as pilot error are actually done by pilots that meet the 1500 rule – and then some – and have experience in their own aircraft?
You do understand that part 380 only applies to unscheduled flights… Let’s tell the whole story here…
Your reporting of this matter has grown more concise as your reportage continues. Kudos.
I’ll offer one seemingly pedantic correction – The SkyWest Charters proposal actually came to the attention of ALPA first due to the potential of having ‘B’ scale pilot wages under the same roof at SkyWest.
The ‘B’ scale issue in and of itself wasn’t going to garner much attention beyond internecine bickering between ALPA & SkyWest. ALPA lobbying found a “partner” in American Airlines to “legitimize by stigmatiz(ation)” with introducing a stalking horse in the form of an alleged safety deficiency.
Being based in Dallas, JSX was the unfortunate victim of the crossfire between the FAA, ALPA and SkyWest.
Nevertheless, we’re at the current point in the matter. That said, in addition to JSX and SkyWest Charters, there are a handful of other carriers I managed to identify operating under the 135/380 model that will be impacted by potential FAA revisions to 380 rules:
Advanced Air
Aero
Boutique Air
Contour Air (previously mentioned)
IBC Air
Surf Air (previously mentioned)
Tradewind
XO Jet/XO Jet Aviation
Three of these carriers operate Essential Air Service routes. Two of the carriers offer international service to areas that receive limited air service. Two of the carriers offer the only scheduled service at certain alternate airports in major U.S. metropolitan areas. One carrier operates as a scheduled corporate charter.
All of this carnage as a result of politics stemming from a potential pay dispute.
It’s a good article for those who are involved but not steeped in the topic. From past articles on the subject, the narrative pertaining to Part 380 is definitely meant to sway public opinion, as in, ‘it is an unsafe option’ for the flying public. This article definitely challenges that idea. Prior to covid, the regional-legacy business model was running like a well-oiled machine. Now, not so much. Regional options are drying up. It makes sense that some pilot unions or organizations are trying to guard their leverage when dealing with their respective employers/carriers. At the same time, regional airports and their prospective passengers (including the business community) deserve to to be able to access air travel without commuting 1-4 hours in order to reach a specific hub. Deregulation in the airline industry was supposed to free up carriers and promote competition. It did the exact opposite and the consumer is left with fewer choices, less service, higher prices, and interrupted travel which is becoming the norm.
What happened to free enterprise and the benefits of a competitive marketplace? Consumers are selecting! This article shows how close we are to slipping into the Socialist States of America. Many people freely accept these ideas today. This is clear government interference in a free market society.
Nothing to see here, just the mighty free market regulating itself.
I agree 100% that JSX shouldn’t be bullied out of existence.
I agree 99.9% that a pilot with 250 hours is equivalent to one with 1500.
Redundancy is an integral principle of aircraft design and operations. Eliminating backup hardware systems, safety features, and countless procedures performed by ground and air-based personnel, could save lots of time and money, and 99.9% of the time would have no impact on flights .
I agree
@Ferlucio – this is literally government regulation though?
To H with ALPA and American Airlines. If they are so afraid of competition, they should improve their dismal product. Yes to JSX and others!
Totally agree.
Fabulous service and convenience.
KEEP FLYING!!!
I really don’t understand this and probably never will; nevertheless, here are my layman’s thoughts.
1. I never fly JSX and probably never will as it’s not where I go and I won’t get points, but it may attract crazy self-absorbed passengers who might otherwise fly sitting next to me, so I say let them have their own airline and let them be and leave me alone.
2. I would prefer that the legacy airlines, the big alliance airlines, the excellent foreign airlines, etc., be allowed to join the JSX club and not ban JSX from their club.
3. FAA obviously has oulived its usefulness to the American flying public. FAA staff obviously only care about their own retirement accounts and occasionally prepare for a staff promotion interview by creating hell for some airline.
4. Apparently, USA flying is not as bad as UK flying, given the UK’s air traffic control computer failure the last few days. Is the failed UK system our closest competitior? Really?
First, the weird flex for starlink is complete nonsense. While I have no idea if starlink is better than the wifi offered by other carriers, the notion that it’s better because it’s closer is absurd. Airlines fly at around 30k feet. Starlink satellites fly at around 1.8 million feet up. The ground (and the telcom towers on the ground) are WAY closer than those satellites in space, even in low Earth orbit.
Second, the issue isn’t that they can get away with the lower regulations because they have fewer passengers. The issues is that they are – per the FAQs on their own website – getting away with lower regulations by flying as charter flights instead of regularly scheduled flights. They found a loop hole by legally being two separate companies, the first selling tickets to regularly scheduled flights that they are unable to operate, and the second being technically a charter company that the first company charters to fulfill the flight it scheduled.
They are using a regulation originally created for small groups of passengers that all know each other and are flying as one group. JSX found a loop hole allowing them to use thatbsame regulation outside of its intended or written purpose. While one small company using a loop hole might just require a little extra scrutiny over that company to make sure they are being safe, when a bunch of companies start using the loop hole the burden on regulators to provide that added scrutiny for everyone becomes to much and needs to be closed off.
I’m not going to comment on if the current regulations on other airlines are too high. That’s an irrelevant red herring to this. Rediculous or not those regulations add a significant government mandated expense to the operations of most airlines. To give one airline a free pass to avoid those costs that the government is forcing on everyone else isn’t a free market or a company just being innovative. It’s one company using a government loophole to create an unfair government mamdated advantage in the market place.
I usually enjoy View From the Wing, but these onesided JSX appologist articles fall way short of honest journalism. I’m not saying the regulations on pilots shouldn’t be changed or that there aren’t some clear financial gains for those advoating for them to stay as they are, but presenting a company using a loophole to evade them as being under attack when the government tries to close that loophole is just not honest.
I’ve flown JSX with the family this past summer and one of the perks that made me choose them over the big airlines other than the price was being able to bring my dog on board. Of course she was leashed and everything. They were extremely accommodating to the other pet owners too so I will probably fly with them again.
I dream of a day where my kids or grandkids will have an AI pilot… Problem solved. Thank you for this interesting article
Part 380 is for “charter carriers.”
JSX is acting as a scheduled carrier, i.e., a Part 121 carrier just like WN, DL, AA and UA.
It should be required to follow the same regulations as the majors.
If you want to have a discussion on what the pilot training requirements should be, that is really a different subject.
As a private pilot with a CE-525 rating, I will tell you that 250-hours does not produce a pilot. It produces a button pusher.
I love the comments from folks “they seem like X, so they should follow X rules” that do not even pretend to make the argument that there is a safety reason for changing the rules to put a perfectly legal air carrier out of business.
Perfect example of corruption in our government, 2 way DOJ system, and big business special interests worried about and kicked the small business owners out of competition. These acts should be criminalized and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. All persons involved from FAA, politicians, big business, regulators, and accomplices should be fined heavily and do lengthy prison terms in hell!!
What’s wrong American, can’t stand the heat in the kitchen. They (JSX) isn’t doing anything wrong. All they are doing is creating a niche in an area where your larger Boeing 737s and 767s cannot fly. They go to the much smaller airfields that you cannot make any money at. Let’s call it what we will. You all balked and whined like the bullies you are when the founder of Jet Blue came onto the tarmac and shook up the industry. The same man who you are wishing to beat on the play ground, because his business is better than yours
Let’s not forget this is a blog and not a legitimate, fact based news organization. The writer has blogged his opinion and it is not necessarily supported by widely held beliefs or facts. Also, the comments here are, not withstanding some industry professionals who have opinions too – albeit based on experience, opinions, based on one’s own experiences.
This particular subject, just from a safety standpoint, regardless of market forces, is very complicated and has many facets which require a great deal of knowledge which bloggers and blog readers likely do not possess.
The answer to JSX and similar operations should likely be left to industry and regulatory professionals.
I have flown JSX twice. It was the most relaxing, efficient, calm, high value flights that I have had in a very long time!
Why airlines, especially American Airlines wants to get their panties in a bunch over this small regional airline makes me very angry. And the fact that the FAA is in collusion with the Pilot Association and major airlines to potentially ban JSX and others is such an overreach of corporate America and their cronies in the agencies that are supposed to promote expanded & safe air travel.
After you have flown, JSX, you will not want to go back to the major airlines. JSX understands customer service, and customer comfort on their flights.
@Stephen
“First, the weird flex for starlink is complete nonsense. While I have no idea if starlink is better than the wifi offered by other carriers, the notion that it’s better because it’s closer is absurd. Airlines fly at around 30k feet. Starlink satellites fly at around 1.8 million feet up. The ground (and the telcom towers on the ground) are WAY closer than those satellites in space, even in low Earth orbit.”
This isn’t how SATCOM works. Look up latency in low earth orbit vs. geosynchronous orbit and you might have your answer. A major factor in why Starlink is faster/better than other satellite internet because it’s literally closer. The average round-trip latency for LEO satellites is about 5-10 times lower than GEO satellites. There are actually a number of other advantages about proliferated LEO constellations compared to GEO.
Ground based systems like GoGo, even their 5G aviation product, have been made generally redundant by both GEO/LEO SATCOM because of their inherent coverage limits. Gary’s “flex” is actually spot on.
The rest of your comment is as well researched as the starlink riff, but you’re entitled to your own political opinions about regulations, just not engineering.
A few comments have somewhat correctly pointed out that JSX is operating under a loophole. Let’s reframe that argument: JSX has a business plan which is tailored to a loophole. They would find another loophole if needed/allowed. We simply focus on this one because it’s the one they currently use. The root isn’t this loophole. The root is a (seemingly) successful business plan designed to serve an underserved market segment. IE they likely didn’t start out saying “here’s a regulatory gap, how can we exploit it to make a good business plan?” It was more likely “here’s a good business plan, is there a regulatory gap we can exploit?”
A typical article from a know-nothing blogger. The Part 121 regulations exist because we have learned, through very painful experience, what happens when poorly trained pilots fly scheduled airlines. Don’t point to foreign airlines, either, because there are many, many examples of crashes caused by poorly trained pilots. Watch a few seasons of “Air Disasters” on the Smithsonian Channel and you’ll understand the difference between well trained and poorly trained pilots.
I’m not a commercial pilot, but I do have about 700 hours of pilot time, and I know that 250 hours is just a starting point.
Thank You For This Article Gary The 1500 Rule Is Modern Day Slavery.
I Got Litter Message For You Union Pilot People When Your Flying Your 737 Or Whatever Look Down
At The Roads Yes I’m Talking About Trucks 18 Wheelers The Ones Keep This Country Moving We Make Sure We Keep This Country Moving And We Make Sure We Keep The Grocery’s Stores Gas Station And Airports All Over This Country Full With Jet Fuel And Food So You Pilot Union People Keep Flying Your Airplanes Us Truck Drivers Spent Crap Ton Time On The Roads So You Pilot Union People Need To Be Grateful And Stop All The Nonsense 1500 Hours Is Ridiculous Stupid And Disgusting You Can Not Run Airlines Like A Trucking Company You All Gonna Run The Airline Industry To The Ground.
Why should JSX be allowed to bypass TSA? That’s the biggest issue I have with it. They are random people on a plane without TSA, why should they get that exception over a ML carrier ?
@Brandon S – there are not ‘random people’ on a plane, they do ID verification and matching against the same targeting databases. Every carry on bag is swiped. People fly through FBOs without TSA every day. **Airport security is not the FAA’s jurisdiction** and is not used as an argument in the notice of proposed rulemaking. TSA has not expressed concern with JSX’s procedures.
@Andrew D Ostrom – Europe has as strong a safety record as the U.S. without this rule. Please explain exactly why a co-pilot running up hours in a tethered balloon drives safety, when the FAA and NTSB have both said that it does not?
So y’all would be happy to buy an van without airbags if half the seats were removed? Yep, most people will never get to use their expensive airbag. Yep, cars would be cheaper without them. But, that’s exactly what JSX et. al. are doing. Two fully ATP rated pilots ensure passenger safety – that’s why rue was implemented. Taking 20 seats out of a jet doesn’t make it any easier to fly, or make the airspace any less conjested or safer.
“For example, with a creative use of 14 C.F.R. Part 380, one company, Indigo, at one point was providing “regular and frequent service” that consisted of four daily flights between Midway (Chicago) and Teterboro (NewJersey), and was doing so utilizing a Part 135 On-Demand carrier.”
“Indigo facilitated these flights as an “indirect air carrier” under Part 380 with authorization from the Department of Transportation (DOT). Indigo’s role was to deal directly with the public, selling the seats on each flight through its website, the Sabre reservation system, and through travel agents. All the while Air-Serv, Indigo’s “sister company”, the entity that held the Part 135 certificate, provided the actual operation of the aircraft. Both Indigo and Air-Serv were owned by New World Holdings in Chicago.”
The excerpt above is from the Journal of Air Law and Commerce….
….dated Spring 2004.
Indigo/Air-Serv received from the DoT its certificate of public convenience & authorization for interstate transport in August 2000. (DOT-OST-2000-7232-0012)
Indigo/Air-Serv submitted its DoT application to engage in interstate CHARTER air transport in April 2000. However, the application clearly states its intent to operate as a Part 135/Part 380 entity. Further, a summary description of the business plan (‘Narrative Service Proposal’) is presented – aircraft type for operations, proposed fleet growth, and potential route network for SCHEDULED SERVICE. (DOT-OST-2000-7232-0001)
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-2000-7232-0001
The information above is presented to demonstrate that rules pertaining to Part 135/Part 380 in scheduled operation (i.e. JSX, SkyWest Charters, Contour, etc.) have been in plain sight for years. Particularly several years before there was a JetSuite/JSX.
The commenter above @Josh makes a salient point that I’ll paraphrase here – if there is a loophole, the loophole lies in the regulatory framework of one government entity (FAA) being responsible for the safety component of public conveyance in aviation, and another (DoT) being responsible for the economic component of public conveyance in aviation.
Unfortunate the use of the word “loophole” in the context that other commenters have applied. It’s suggestive of a nefarious, malintentioned, and “legal, but illegal” connotation.
If ever there was a high-profile industry that has been rife with regulatory loopholes – that eventually were exploited by innovation – its been the airline industry. Think Kenny Friedkin (PSA), Herb Kelleher & Rollin King, Freddie Laker, Fred Smith (Federal Express)….American’s & United’s push to automate travel agencies…the Northwest Airlines/KLM (Wings) alliance….as well as lesser known individuals/entities/events that have been contributors to the industry.
The FAA has asked for public comment on this *proposed* rulemaking. There is a link in Gary’s post:
https://www.regulations.gov/document/FAA-2023-1857-0001
I will be commenting to discourage the FAA from bending the knee to vested interest lobbies..
The simple way to solve this is to bring the small operators up to the same level of safety at the part 121 carriers. That’s why we are here!
Ask the families of the Colgan Air Flight 3407 if there was a different level of experience of the pilots involved in the flight that their family members that perished were on.
There was! I can tell you as a 23 year Captain with thousand hours and thousands of first officers. As a Captain 250 hour is not enough. I would say 1500 hours is barely enough for public scheduled air transport. We have to incorporate lowest common denominators. If we are going to make a rule.
@Scott – there’s no suggestion that JSX operates at a lower level of safety, or that SkyWest Charter would.
The Colgan Air co-pilot had over 2000 hours. Europe is just as safe without the 1,500 hour rule. A third of those hours can be racked up in a tethered hot air balloon. The 1,500 hour requirement has zero to do with safety.
JSX has brought back affordable first class service that has been missing from American for a long time. That American is now going to the FAA to try to rewrite the rules is ridiculous. All because they are scared of a little competition. I love the fact the I can make a choice to fly any carrier and I will choose JSX every time over American. For the reasons of service, friendly staff, ease of flights, safety, and convenience to name a few. You go JSX and let me know what I can do to help.
So, really, because you believe in competition, you’re actually asking for the majors to be allowed to operate as Part 135, right? It has to be a level playing field…all scheduled carriers should operate under the same rule.
I absolutely agree with the supportive comments for JSX.
Let them go and create their own success or not. But at least with the proper oversight, not over regulation and uncalled for harassment, the consumers and proper corporate management will determine the success or failure of JSX.
Thank you for this very needed forum allowing our comments. All the best. Rob R.
Please allow JSX to be managed with the proper oversight, not over regulation and harassment specifically directed at JSX.
They will be allowed to succeed or fail, of their doing, by excellent corporate management, safe
operations handled appropriately. Finally, as it should be, the consumer will ultimately determine JSX’s outcome. I will repeat, following proper safety and proper government regulations, I believe and support JSX, their employees, especially
excellent management along with their consumers to achieve what they deserve.
All the best for all.
Thank you for this necessary forum to freely express our beliefs and opinions.
Rob Robbins
@Scott – “The simple way to solve this is to bring the small operators up to the same level of safety at the part 121 carriers. That’s why we are here!”
Well….no….the suggestion that safety is compromised in a 135/380 operation is a stalking horse for the real reason – ALPA doesn’t like the prospect of ‘B’ scale pilot wages at regional air carriers.
But, lets say DoT follows your suggestion to “bring up” the small operators to 121 standards. Two problems off the top of my head: (1) Mandatory retirement age of 65 will then apply. (And, apparently, some of the 135/380 operators have former 121 captains that were forced to retire.) (2) The minimum flight hour requirement for the cockpit – 1500 hours – would then apply.
Those two examples alone compound existing issues – pilot shortages AND pilot recruitment – for the small operators.
Anecdotally, sounds like your “solution” closes down at least some of the small operators.
I only fly Delta, Comfort+ and above.
I have no problem with the JSX model… apparently neither does Amex as it is an option as a benefit on the card.
But I refuse to fly AA or UA. JUST PLAIN AWFUL! I’d take SW or JB over those two.
JSX is a $$show. It is neither private nor safe. I have no doubt someone gets mad money on endorsements from them lease refute in print. Atty will that denial up, so we won’t hear one.
Maybe I’m way off base here, but isn’t JFX essentially just EAS without the federal tax subsidies ?
Hasn’t the FAA been pushing for decades to show that eventually some of Airline Deregulation’s bad effects would be mitigated by some new for profit passenger air transportation services concept?
Thank you for making it so easy to understand and comment.
The pilots Union…
The Teachers Union…
And the myriad of other unions will be the death of us all.
Makes the U.S. uncompetitive, and creates massive costs that otherwise would not be there.
I hope no one who is worried about this pilot issue ever gets into an Uber driving 75 mph down a highway in a vehicle that has not been inspected in perhaps a year , driver may have passed one test ten years ago , no co-pilot and zero security. Taxis made the same arguments against Uber. So be consistent and always call yellow cab and not Uber unless it’s Uber black.
For me JSX is best, i get the service that I pay for no long wait no attitude of employees and no bag damage or bag missing. I appreciate all their efforts and dedication to make our fly easy and comfortable. I don’t like rude attitude of American Airlines and others. Mostly the luggage is missing or damaged by this big airlines and their customer service is terrible. Let people have choices and safe their time