In the new Marriott loyalty program they’ve largely taken the better Starwood elite program and the better Marriott earn and burn proposition — however Starwood members won’t see exactly what they’ve come to expect on the Marriott side and and Marriott members have seemed likely to experience some devaluation of points.
Marriott’s CEO says they’re making the program less expensive for hotels. That’s created a pretty strong starting point to assume that earning and redeeming points couldn’t offer quite as good a value as before.
Starwood hotels already received more compensation for free nights than Marriott properties did. Marriott’s David Flueck told me that Marriott properties would eventually be moving to the Starwood availability model where if there’s a standard room available members can redeem points. That will be more expensive.
And under the new program we’re going to see fewer redemption categories, many of which with higher prices. Here’s what we get August 1.
And next year we get a more expensive category 8 — plus off peak and peak dates meaning that award nights can go up to a price off 100,000 per night.
The devil of course is in the details of which hotels are assigned to each category. And just as Marriott hasn’t released the new program terms and conditions, they haven’t released full category assignments yet either.
However they’ve released a sample and they tell me,
You’ll be pleased to see that our move to one, combined Award Chart offers even more value for your points, with more hotels moving down in redemption rates than up. This will also hold true as we place all hotels in our new Award Chart.
W Union Square New York
Marriott has released which hotels are assigned to each category for New York, Paris, Dubai, Bali and for the Caribbean and Mexico.
| Bali | Current Points Required | New Award Chart Points Required | Points Difference | New Award Chart Category* |
| Courtyard Bali Seminyak Resort | 25,000 | 17,500 | -7,500 | 3 |
| Fairfield by Marriott Bali Legian | 20,000 | 17,500 | -2,500 | 3 |
| Four Points by Sheraton Bali, Kuta | 12,000 | 17,500 | 5,500 | 3 |
| Four Points by Sheraton Bali, Seminyak | 12,000 | 17,500 | 5,500 | 3 |
| Courtyard Bali Nusa Dua Resort | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| Le Méridien Bali Jimbaran | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| Renaissance Bali Uluwatu Resort & Spa | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| Sthala, a Tribute Portfolio Hotel, Ubud Bali | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| The Stones Hotel – Legian Bali, Autograph Collection | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| Sheraton Bali Kuta Resort | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| The Westin Resort Nusa Dua, Bali | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| The Laguna, na Luxury Collection Resort & Spa, | 36,000 | 50,000 | 14,000 | 6 |
| Nusa Dua, Bali | ||||
| The Ritz-Carlton, Bali | 40,000 | 50,000 | 10,000 | 6 |
| W Bali – Seminyak | 90,000 | 60,000 | -30,000 | 7 |
| The St. Regis Bali Resort | 90,000 | 60,000 (Effective August) | -30,000 | 8 |
| n85,000 (Coming 2019) | n-5,000 | |||
| Caribbean & Mexico | Current Points Required | New Award Chart Points Required | Points Difference | New Award Chart Category* |
| JW Marriott Hotel Santo Domingo | 30,000 | 25,000 | -5,000 | 4 |
| The Westin Resort & Spa, Puerto Vallarta | 21,000 | 25,000 | 4,000 | 4 |
| Hacienda Puerta Campeche, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Campeche | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Hacienda Santa Rosa, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Santa Rosa | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Hacienda Temozon, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Temozon Sur | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| JW Marriott Hotel Mexico City | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| La Concha Renaissance San Juan Resort | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Marriott Cancun Resort | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Marriott Puerto Vallarta Resort & Spa | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| San Juan Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Sheraton Grand Los Cabos Hacienda del Mar | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| The Westin Cozumel | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| The Westin Puntacana Resort & Club | 30,000 | 35,000 | 5,000 | 5 |
| The Westin Resort & Spa, Cancun | 21,000 | 35,000 | 14,000 | 5 |
| W Mexico City | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Hacienda Uayamon, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Uayamon | 60,000 | 50,000 | -10,000 | 6 |
| JW Marriott Cancun Resort & Spa | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| The Ritz-Carlton, Cancun | 50,000 | 50,000 | 0 | 6 |
| The St. Regis Mexico City | 60,000 | 50,000 | -10,000 | 6 |
| The Ritz-Carlton, Aruba | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| The Westin Grand Cayman Seven Mile Beach | 36,000 | 60,000 | 24,000 | 7 |
| Resort & Spa | ||||
| W Punta de Mita | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Dubai | Current Points Required | New Award Chart Points Required | Points Difference | New Award Chart Category* |
| Dubai Marriott Harbour Hotel & Suites | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Four Points by Sheraton Sheikh Zayed Road, Dubai | 30,000 | 35,000 | 5,000 | 5 |
| Grosvenor House, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Dubai | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| JW Marriott Marquis Hotel Dubai | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| La Ville Hotel & Suites CITY WALK, Dubai, Autograph Collection | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| Lapita, Dubai Parks and Resorts, Autograph Collection | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| Le Méridien Dubai Hotel & Conference Centre | 30,000 | 35,000 | 5,000 | 5 |
| Renaissance Downtown Hotel, Dubai | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| Sheraton Dubai Creek Hotel & Towers | 30,000 | 35,000 | 5,000 | 5 |
| Sheraton Jumeirah Beach Resort | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Sheraton Mall of the Emirates Hotel, Dubai | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Le Méridien Mina Seyahi Beach Resort & Marina | 36,000 | 50,000 | 14,000 | 6 |
| Le Royal Méridien Beach Resort & Spa | 36,000 | 50,000 | 14,000 | 6 |
| The Ritz-Carlton, Dubai | 70,000 | 60,000 | -10,000 | 7 |
| The Westin Dubai Mina Seyahi Beach Resort & Marina | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| New York | Current Points Required | New Award Chart Points Required | Points Difference | New Award Chart Category* |
| Courtyard New York Manhattan/Central Park | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Element New York Times Square West | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Four Points by Sheraton Manhattan Midtown West | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Residence Inn New York Manhattan/Central Park | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| New York Marriott East Side | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| New York Marriott Marquis | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| Renaissance New York Times Square Hotel | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| Sheraton New York Times Square Hotel | 36,000 | 50,000 | 14,000 | 6 |
| The Algonquin Hotel Times Square, Autograph Collection | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| The Westin New York at Times Square | 60,000 | 50,000 | -10,000 | 6 |
| The Westin New York Grand Central | 60,000 | 50,000 | -10,000 | 6 |
| Gramercy Park Hotel, New York, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Hotel Americano, New York, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| The New York EDITION | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| W New York – Times Square | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| W New York – Union Square | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| 11 Howard, New York, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 90,000 | 60,000 (Effective August) | -30,000 | 8 |
| n85,000 (Coming 2019) | n-5,000 | |||
| The Chatwal, a Luxury Collection Hotel, New York City | 90,000 | 60,000 (Effective August) | -30,000 | 8 |
| n85,000 (Coming 2019) | n-5,000 | |||
| The St. Regis New York | 90,000 | 60,000 (Effective August) | -30,000 | 8 |
| n85,000 (Coming 2019) | n-5,000 | |||
| Paris | Current Points Required | New Award Chart Points Required | Points Difference | New Award Chart Category* |
| Le Dokhan’s, a Tribute Portfolio Hotel, Paris | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Le Méridien Etoile | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Paris Marriott Rive Gauche Hotel & Conference Center | 35,000 | 35,000 | 0 | 5 |
| Renaissance Paris Republique Hotel | 40,000 | 35,000 | -5,000 | 5 |
| Sheraton Paris Airport Hotel & Conference Centre | 36,000 | 35,000 | -1,000 | 5 |
| Le Metropolitan, a Tribute Portfolio Hotel, Paris | 36,000 | 50,000 | 14,000 | 6 |
| Paris Marriott Opera Ambassador Hotel | 40,000 | 50,000 | 10,000 | 6 |
| Renaissance Paris Arc de Triomphe Hotel | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| Renaissance Paris Le Parc Trocadero Hotel | 40,000 | 50,000 | 10,000 | 6 |
| Renaissance Paris Vendome Hotel | 45,000 | 50,000 | 5,000 | 6 |
| Hotel Bel Ami, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Hotel de NELL, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Hotel Vernet, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| La Maison Champs Elysées, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Le Roch Hotel and Spa, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Les Bains, Paris, a Member of Design Hotels™ | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Paris Marriott Champs Elysees Hotel | 45,000 | 60,000 | 15,000 | 7 |
| The Westin Paris – Vendôme | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| W Paris – Opéra | 60,000 | 60,000 | 0 | 7 |
| Prince de Galles, a Luxury Collection Hotel, Paris | 90,000 | 60,000 (Effective August) | -30,000 | 8 |
| n85,000 (Coming 2019) | n-5,000 |
David Flueck had told me to expect legacy Marriott properties in New York to get more expensive. And some do. Perhaps they really will move in a big way with the introduction of a new higher award category next year and peak date pricing. However the changes here aren’t bad, and indeed the nicest Starwood hotels will require fewer points as I wrote the day the new program was announced.
I don’t like peak and off peak pricing. The great value is in using a fixed number of points for a hotel when room rates skyrocket. Flexing points prices when rooms are expensive reduces the value you can receive at the top end. Sure off peak prices are nice, but when room rates are low you’re better off using cash and saving points for outsized value.
I’m still expecting that overall existing Marriott points balances will be worth less, that there will be a devaluation on the earn and burn side for Marriott members, but Starwood members should be earning more points and should be able to redeem at the same or lower prices under the new program. And it’s the Starwood hotels that in many cases are the special ones where I want to use my points.
So far we have only a sketch of what some of the hotels will cost, and only for the first 5 months of the new program. I wish we had more, but it’s a start and they promise that more hotels moving down than up in redemption price will “hold true as we place all hotels in” the new chart. That’s encouraging.
Thanks for the scoop Gary!
Odd that the Sheraton and the Westin are in the same category in NYC.
Just noticed that Essex House is missing from NYC.
Honestly I don’t think the vast majority of your readers have aspirations for Bali or a Dubai – they want to know the new prices for London, NYC, and resorts. The NYC and Paris charts are helpful but MR selective picking of the others doesn’t give me any comfort. Mexico is so cheap that there is rarely reason to use points there. I’m not holding my breath for Hawaii, SF & LA.
On the plus side it looks like SPG properties won’t be devalued until 2019, so we have more time to book at the current rates.
11 Howard and Gramercy Park are mixed up. 11 Howard stays at 60,000 and the Gramercy Park goes from 90,000 to 60,000
Also – where’s Al Maha on the Dubai list?
What about The St. Regis Punta Mita Resort in Mexico? I didn’t see it listed either.
Or the JW Marriott in Los Cabos. Seems strange to make this release then leave several hotels off the list in several of the cities.
The St. Regis Bali was one of the all suite properties with the outrages points prices…..so according to this they won’t do an up charge for those type of properties?
I have aspirations to book st regis bora bora the second half of this year.
Are we thinking they will not put St. Regis Bora Bora in the award chart as they left off all suite property in UAE Al Maha?
Gary, one of the biggest fears on the SPG side is that we will see capacity controls on Awards. SPG awards are much easier to use than Marriott Rewards.
Has Marriott said anything on this subject?
This is far from good. Only hotels at either extremes went down in price a bit. They definitely devalued hotels where the majority of members redeemed for points in these markets.
Definitely can be worse, but this is far from good.
Wow,
The Westin Grand Cayman Seven Mile Beach going from 36k to 60k.
What about Al Maha?
Well, those are the point prices for 6ish months, from August until 2019, then Marriott devalues again by introducing “peak” prices. No thanks.
The Sheraton New York Times Square going up 14,000 per night to 50,000 is laughable.
We have two SPG properties booked for later this year that I’m now particularly curious about: The St. Regis Bali (late July – beginning of Aug) and Westin Grand Cayman (stay in Dec, booked before SPG raised rates, so 48K for 5 nights). How will the St. Regis handle a booking that splits between the old and new system? What about the Westin? I’d sure hope we get the rate we booked (even if x3 for the SPG to Marriott conversion). The new rate is a huge jump!
Any insights?
I think your first chart is misleading. For example, it shows a category 5 as a 40% increase, but really, the category numbers are irrelevant. What matters is the point levels, as you use in the subsequent hotel lists. Really, cats 4 and 6 have gone away, cats 5 & 7 and now 4 & 5, and the others will fall around there somewhere.
The hotel lists, though limited, are a useful indication of this.
And I’ll agree that – for now – the numbers don’t seem too bad.
Can’t figure out of Marriott Aruba will be a 6 or 5. Waiting continues..
None of this really matters without info on capacity controls which is the most disturbing and heinous devaluation trend of all.
Interesting that the two Tribute hotels in Paris, previously in the same SPG category, are going in different directions. I stayed at Le Dokhan’s; it’s going down (very slightly). The sister property 2 blocks away, Le Metropolitan, which I toured and had dinner at, is going up a lot. They were same number of points previously, and it made sense to me at the time, despite their different personalities.
@MM
If there is peak/off peak pricing then capacity controls are not that relevant.
What about London? Or Rome! Or Hong Kong and Singapore! Then there are the Caribbean islands.
Look at the hotels in Europe. Most of the “good” ones are category 6, 7 or 8 in the new chart. Sure, there are some that are category 5 but everyone will now redeem points at those properties and by 2020 they will be category 6 or 7.
Marriott can sugar coat this all they want but the hotels that folks really want to reedem points for are almost all more expensive.
@Norita
Unless peak / off peak is fixed based on time of year, which was my understanding. If its tied to capacity and then the price automatically goes up once reached , no matter what time of year, its even more relevant.
Capacity controls are terrible for disabled travelers who need accessible rooms as they are usually unavailable with points in such systems since there are only a few to begin with, thereby effectively making points useless for them. . Hope MR takes this into account. Otherwise, I’m out of their program as I will never be able to book a room. Right now, if an accessible room is available, I can book it with points. They should ensure that does not change.
Important – do you know if the new category 5 hotels will be able to be booked using the 7 night 1-5 cert from the travel package? There are now, for example, a number of category 5 hotels in Paris when there were few before.
Similar question to @EstelleGregory – can the category 1-5 certificates issued as anniversary “presents” for having the Chase Marriott card now be used for these NY hotels?
I am sure that it is just coincidence that they have released rates for 13/16 SPG hotels in New York and 6/48 Marriotts, right? And 13/14 SPG in Paris and 7/18 Marriott?
It doesn’t look too bad because they cherry picked which hotels to tell us about. We already knew that the badly overpriced SPG hotels were going to be going down in price, at least temporarily.
@Kevin
The St Regis Bali does not represent a true Cat 7+ SPG property since its suites were always priced at standard Cat 7 levels. The true outliers will continue to be…outliers. Perhaps its better to think of them as non participating properties that can be booked on Marriott/SPG points. That is essentially what they are.
@TheJetsFan
Yours seems like a special case and it ideally should be treated as such by the chains. Its difficult for chains to account for edge cases while making major decisions but they absolutely can and should make exceptions for you. I’d say if you haven’t reached out to PR or some other VP level person in the hotel chains you stay with or with senior management in the hotels directly, you should get on that. I honestly cannot imagine that hotels would decline to book you into an accessible room at standard room redemption rates. This seems like the easiest and most logical manual over-ride for them. Speak to Reservations/Revenue/Front Office Managers in properties and you will have unlocked yourself a near permanent solution
Can’t wait to see London , Tokyo , and Hong Kong
@Boraxo
I was also hoping there would be sampling of Hawaii and cities in the West Coast, such as Waikiki and San Francisco where there are Marriott and Starwood hotels within walking distance from each other.
@Beachfan – Marriott will adopt the spg model (but not immediately)
While I like others like seeing some of the cat 7 SPG properties come down in price, I worry about capacity controls now…Marriott seems to play games w/inventory.
BTW is VFTW officially a DCS-free zone now? If so, best thing ever – nice to be free of #fakenews here.
Unless I had a million points hard to imagine me wanting to use 60,000 SPG points for one night in a hotel when you can get 70,000 points in a transfer to an airline program and use them toward a much more valuable premium airline flight.
@David – 60k would get you three nights not one. Don’t confuse pre and post 8/1 conversions.
Luckily, I just reserved Westin Grand Cayman for 5 nights, fifth free, for 48K SPG points, or 144K MR, for mid December. Going forward it seems it’ll be 60K/night or 240K MR for the 5 nights.
I haven’t seen if they are continuing the bonus for transferring 20,000 pts to an airline and getting 25,000 credit. Did I miss it or is it a topic not being covered?
UA-NYC Oh, that’s right. Thanks! That makes it make more sense, although my goal in collecting points is almost always to try for premium international flights.
It is a good deal esp. when you can transfer to AA and redeem on CX and others for cheaper rates vs. via BA and much higher miles + taxes.
They certainly put their best foot forward with this partial list and selected some very positive examples.
I know Bali pretty well and the hotels that have gone down in price, have gone from stupendously overpriced to just overpriced.
You can still easily find similar or better properties on Bali by paying cash for independent properties or other chains and saving your points for a better-value opportunity.
My local Fairfield inn just went from a cat 1 to a cat 2 in march. Is there any chance when the new chart comes out thet move it back to a cat 1?
Bump:
Re capacity controls, any more details? Specifically, any info on whether peak pricing means access to last room availability like SPG? Am guessing no news is bad news. This is the linchpin for my decision as to whether convert SPG-AX spending to cash back card for all non-bonused spending.